Private Land Hunting... Cheating? Rifles...Cheating?

[bishoppa]

In no way am I saying that hunting on private land is wrong or hunting with a rifle is wrong. Rather I am posting this to try and understand my own feelings as I have hunted for the last 30 years and to see if there are hunters out there that have the same feelings and why we might have those feelings.
Rarely have I had the opportunity to hunt private land, and even more rare are the times I have asked to hunt on private land. In 30 years I have hunted on private land less than a hand full of times. My memories while walking on the land have been, "I feel like I am cheating." I don't know why I feel this way but I do. Do any others have that feeling and why do you think we have it?
The second feeling I am starting to have is that I am cheating if I use a rifle. (I am not saying if others use a rifle they are cheating, just that I feel I am.) I believe I understand this one in my own heart. Given the vast amount of success I have had with my bow over the last decade I find no joy in blowing down an elk with my rifle, in short I feel like I am cheating. Any others developing this feeling like me? How do we deal with it? How do we share it with others with out being hunting snobs and prideful?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I guess you have to define in your own mind what cheating is.

I normally hunt public land, but I sure as heck don't turn down opportunities to hunt private land.

If you don't enjoy it, don't do it.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

I would say it certainly isn't cheating. I can empathize with your feelings, and for me it is more about shorting myself of the challenge that comes from taking an elk under the most challenging conditions. Maybe you could say you are cheating yourself out of something by taking, what for you, would be a short cut. However, I am a novice elk hunter, and if I am unsuccessful during this archery season, I will be back out with my rifle to fill the freezer.

To answer your last question, I guess it is all in the delivery, I always try and be respectful of other hunters methods (as long as they are legal). If that person's ego is threatened by someone who takes the harder road, that is their problem.

 

[Big Fin]

If you have access to private land, then by all means, take advantage of it. No guilt, no worries, just go hunting and have fun.

As for rifles, whatever turns your crank. In Montana, you can legally use an atalatl, so if that gets someone excited, go after it and the spear chucking device.

How to deal with it? Do what you want, where you want, and be comfortable with your own decisions and motives for why you do what you do. Don't worry about what others think of your choices and support the choices others make for their own personal motivations. Most of all, have fun.

 

[jryoung]

Every hunt, public or private, rifle or bow can present a unique experience and different challenges. Embracing the uniqueness of each hunt is what makes them special.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I understand the concepts you describe. It's not really novel to hunting, though it can be hard to explain in terms that are meaningful to others; even other hunters.

If you're crushing your age group in rec league basketball/baseball/golf/hockey/etc, you'd feel a greater sense of accomplishment and take more joy in the effort if you move up to an open division.

If you move up to a position of more responsibility at work, and are able to meet goals that are difficult to achieve, you will find a strong sense of satisfaction.

In the same way, looking for a mature animal on public land while testing my mental and physical abilities is satisfying to me personally. I prefer to do that while living out of a pack. It's just a twist I find fulfilling. For some it's doing it with a bow, for others it's B&C heads.

The specifics are easy to get stuck on, but the idea is central to pretty much any hobby that somebody enjoys.

 

[RobG]

In no way am I saying that hunting on private land is wrong or hunting with a rifle is wrong. Rather I am posting this to try and understand my own feelings as I have hunted for the last 30 years and to see if there are hunters out there that have the same feelings and why we might have those feelings.
Rarely have I had the opportunity to hunt private land, and even more rare are the times I have asked to hunt on private land. In 30 years I have hunted on private land less than a hand full of times. My memories while walking on the land have been, "I feel like I am cheating." I don't know why I feel this way but I do. Do any others have that feeling and why do you think we have it?
The second feeling I am starting to have is that I am cheating if I use a rifle. (I am not saying if others use a rifle they are cheating, just that I feel I am.) I believe I understand this one in my own heart. Given the vast amount of success I have had with my bow over the last decade I find no joy in blowing down an elk with my rifle, in short I feel like I am cheating. Any others developing this feeling like me? How do we deal with it? How do we share it with others with out being hunting snobs and prideful?

I guess it depends on how exclusive the private land is. I've been on some that have low hunting pressure and are managed for large animals and it wouldn't be that difficult to shoot a "trophy." Shooting one of those for the wall seems a bit like cheating if you are trying to pass yourself as an awesome hunter.

 

[Southwind]

I have always called myself a "Hunter" with no hyphenation to anything because I enjoy archery, rifle, muzzle loaders you name so no quilt what so ever for me.

As for private land, coming from a state that is over 95% privately owned if you want to hunt you better figure out how to get permission. Truthfully it is cheaper for me to do an out of state hunt on public land than to lease hunting property in my own state.

Thankfully we have our WIHA program which is Walk in hunting areas that are private ground leased by the state and open to public hunting. I have taken some very nice animals on these properties and hope the program continues.

I also feel no quilt for hunting any private ground when given the opportunity, just because it's private doesn't mean it is better than public.

When I hunt I try to take the best representative mature animal I can find for the area I am hunting, if I like it I take it regardless of what score someone may apply to it.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

The other thing is that trophies don't all have to mean the same thing. It's a slippery slope if you have to beat hellish odds and wear out your body to be satisfied.

You could use the same logic and never put in for limited draw tags...a strong 6x6 bull from a trophy unit might not mean the same thing as a similar bull from a general unit. Doesn't mean they're not both great trophies and probably great memories. They're just different.

 

[Jamen]

I understand where you are coming from. I am pretty lucky growing up with farmers in the family. Most of that land has now been sold. But I also have friends that now are taking up the family farms and I have access to more land than I can ever hunt. Not bragging about that, I am just a people person and helping fix fence or pick rocks goes a long ways. Public land where I live is a war zone. People hunt it so hard and everyday I stay away from that. It is nice to go to a place knowing its you and the outdoors nothing else. I am a solitary hunter and it suits me well. I also agree if you have a chance to hunt private land jump at it and keep that relationship open. I always offer help and game that I harvest from there. Being only 24 I would like to keep these relations open for my future.

Just my two cents
Jamen

 

[genesis273]

Cheating? Cheat-"to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage".
As long as you're abiding by federal, state, unit, land owner rules/laws, you're not cheating.

Are some ways of legally taking game easier than others? Yes. To each his own in doing what he loves to do legally.

 

[bishoppa]

Cheating? Cheat-"to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage".
As long as you're abiding by federal, state, unit, land owner rules/laws, you're not cheating.

Are some ways of legally taking game easier than others? Yes. To each his own in doing what he loves to do legally.

Thank you all for your comments. Reflecting on them I have learned a lot already about me. Genesis 273.... Thanks for your candor and your black and white perspective, perhaps my word choice of cheating was wrong. I am not worried about legality, hence I would never condemn anyone for hunting private or using a firearm, because I have and probably will do it again, perhaps this year even.
If I was only concerned with what is law in life then abortions should be fine and I would not be cheating a life. However my inter questions of my own heart have to do with morals and conscience regardless of law. Just because a law says something is ok does not make it so for me personally. I guess your final words..."to each his own" is a good answer. I guess I have to claim the privilege of hunting according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all hunters the same privilege. Let them hunt how, where and what they may!

 

[huntin24/7]

This is something is going to vary from situation to situation. Living in NE MT, there is very little public land and a fair amount of BMA. I've taken deer off of both and lots of birds off both. However, the scouting we do shows the vast majority of good bucks on private, so I do most of my deer hunting on private land that most people who ask would have permission. I'm not going to turn down access to high quality private even though I've only had that opportunity once before. I'm not sure I'd personally be able to hunt really good private if my hunting partners weren't also able to. To each their own. Public hunting is going to be more difficult almost every time, but you shouldnt feel guilty for hunting private that you have permission.

 

[JDH]

I don't consider it cheating to hunt private. I have had limited access on private but it sure was nice not having to get there extra early and also not having that pit in my stomach on the drive to public land wondering if I would get there and see another vehicle parked at my spot.

 

[jakesdad]

I'd say 99% of my hunting has been on private as my family is fortunate to own some MO farmground plus have very generous neighbors that allow us to hunt whatever whenever. I dont feel like i'm "cheating" by hunting our land at all. The amount of work we put into it with timber improvement,habitat improvement,foodplots,etc. I feel a little more connected to the hunt as we try to give back much more than we take.

Not lumping public hunters into the same group at all so please dont take it that way,but the few times i've hunted on public(in MO anyway) it seems like people tend to abuse what isnt theirs;littering,ridind atvs in prohibited areas,abusing game laws and limits,etc) more so than those who own their own.

 

[HSi-ESi]

A challenge is what you make it to be and everyone has different levels of fun.

I have hunted private and public land in MT all my life. When I was a kid - it was nice that I could just focus and learn to hunt deer and antelope. I didn't have to worry about other hunters having an impact on the outcome of the hunt and my Dad didn't have to worry about a negative hunter/hunter interaction.

Elk hunting was different - we hunted only public there. In fact, my first public land elk was taken from me by another "hunter" (I was 12 at the time). After that experience, when we hunted public ground we would go where other hunters wouldn't. Consequently, we got elk every year as well.

I guess the point of my post is that each person determines their hunting experience. If a rifle / private land hunt floats your boat, then do it. Maybe you want to limit a shot distance to under 20 yards, only shoot a specific animal (maybe it's a bruiser, maybe it's a young "forkie"). You might only want to backpack in and hunt elk with a bow on public ground. Work with what you have and have fun! I try to not judge other hunters (but some times they make it really hard not to).

 

[The Hedgehog]

To help soothe the "feelings" you're having and achieve peace and joy with your inner soul, may I suggest grabbing a high powered rifle, and taking a stroll on Type I BMA, and try to "blow down" an elk and see how you do.

Possibly, after a few days of feeling tremendous guilt and the unsatisfying urge to be challenged and at one with nature, the cleansing thoughts of bowhunting elk on the national forest might arouse your unbridled spirit.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

I'd say 99% of my hunting has been on private as my family is fortunate to own some MO farmground plus have very generous neighbors that allow us to hunt whatever whenever. I dont feel like i'm "cheating" by hunting our land at all. The amount of work we put into it with timber improvement,habitat improvement,foodplots,etc. I feel a little more connected to the hunt as we try to give back much more than we take.

Not lumping public hunters into the same group at all so please dont take it that way,but the few times i've hunted on public(in MO anyway) it seems like people tend to abuse what isnt theirs;littering,ridind atvs in prohibited areas,abusing game laws and limits,etc) more so than those who own their own.

Public land for MO ducks and doves is phenomenal in a lot of places and is quite well managed. I can't speak to turkeys, but I know that public rifle deer hunting in Mark Twain national forest is the biggest mess I've ever seen. I bowhunted the same area and saw 1 truck all season and opening day of rifle every field had a rifle hunter every 50-100 yards like it was dove season. I have seen plenty of private landowners who don't call in their deer, shoot sub legal bucks and have a pile of empty soda cans under their stand from the last 10 years while hunting in MO.

As an easterner I associated public lands hunting largely with the adventure in that its a road trip, camping trip and hunting trip all at once to go to a place with good access.

I think its normal to envy anyone with private access like anything in life. Its a pretty natural emotion.

I've know great hunters on private land and horrible hunters on public. The catch is that its very difficult to become a good public land hunter in a lot of places because the opportunity and success rate is so low while its easy to get a lot of chances to learn on private where animals are less likely to be call shy and you get 6 shot opportunities a season versus one every other year on public land.

I think the most important thing to remember is that hunting is something you compete against yourself and set your own standards within legal means. We live in country where you can hunt a ranch in Texas with corn feeders the same way you can buy an unlimited tag for sheep in Montana.

A lot of people say some form of hunting is cheating or is ruining hunting purely out of selfish reasons rather than from the view of long term species health or outsiders view of hunting.

 

[ida homer]

GOOD waterfowl hunting is very tough sledding on public land in a lot of places. Geese almost exclusively.

I think you just need to come up with new ways of challenging yourself, and adjust those goals whether your on public or private. I get what your saying, I bet a lot of archers share similar feelings.

 

[belly-deep]

Cheating is when you break the rules. As long as its legal, its not cheating.

Challenge is what you're talking about.

If you don't feel challenged, then change it. Lots of ways to do so.

Me? I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.