Montana kids in court

[marshman]

Curious about hunttalks thoughts on Montana children suing the state over climate policy?
I think Montana has got some smart ones growing up! Maybe they can make a difference? Seems to me like the politicians in Montana are going the wrong direction on this subject.

 

[Nameless Range]

I don’t think it’s the right way to go about it. Nor do I think, even if they win, it will be taken that seriously as it is not clear to me how it could be.

Yes, our state government disproportionately favors fossil fuels, and does no favors to “renewable” energy. But what does it mean, specifically, for a government to protect its citizens from climate change? The world is more complicated than that.

Ultimately, I wonder if it is doing more harm than good to our beautiful constitutional right to a “clean and healthful environment” - if this is putting a bull’s-eye on that.

I could say more, but I think I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I don’t think it’s the right way to go about it. Nor do I think, even if they win, it will be taken that seriously as it is not clear to me how it could be.

Yes, our state government disproportionately favors fossil fuels, and does no favors to “renewable” energy. But what does it mean, specifically, for a government to protect its citizens from climate change? The world is more complicated than that.

Ultimately, I wonder if it is doing more harm than good to our beautiful constitutional right to a “clean and healthful environment” - if this is putting a bull’s-eye on that.

I could say more, but I think I’ll leave it at that.

The astute young people bringing this lawsuit would be offended at being dismissed as "children". They are bright, articulate and would likely kick our butts in a serious debate.

FYI, the lawsuit is all about revoking legislation that was passed in this recent wacko session which would preclude climate change from being considered in serious matters.

Even with no real position on climate change, anyone in their right mind would be opposed to ignoring scientific and factual information which would influence serious decisions.

I would say there were more legislators with the mentality of uninformed and immature "children" than any of these well studied young people to which you refer.

 

[mtmuley]

The astute young people bringing this lawsuit would be offended at being dismissed as "children". They are bright, articulate and would likely kick our butts in a serious debate.

FYI, the lawsuit is all about revoking legislation that was passed in this recent wacko session which would preclude climate change from being considered in serious matters.

Even with no real position on climate change, anyone in their right mind would be opposed to ignoring scientific and factual information which would influence serious decisions.

I would say there were more legislators with the mentality of uninformed and immature "children" than any of these well studied young people to which you refer.

Where did Nameless call them children? mtmuley

 

[Nameless Range]

The astute young people bringing this lawsuit would be offended at being dismissed as "children". They are bright, articulate and would likely kick our butts in a serious debate.

FYI, the lawsuit is all about revoking legislation that was passed in this recent wacko session which would preclude climate change from being considered in serious matters.

Even with no real position on climate change, anyone in their right mind would be opposed to ignoring scientific and factual information which would influence serious decisions.

I would say there were more legislators with the mentality of uninformed and immature "children" than any of these well studied young people to which you refer.

You won't get any arguments from me that many in the leg are "wacko". I didn't say they were children, but the OP did, and I would agree. The plaintiffs range from ages 5-22. I pulled the tooth out of my 5 year old's mouth yesterday. There's children in there.

That's really neither here nor there though. In the AP article I read yesterday, it said a victory would result in no meaningful change. I think that is really what makes me wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze. I of course wish facts were considered when crafting legislation,and don't think uncomfortable ones should be omitted.


In prior rulings, State District Judge Judge Kathy Seeley significantly narrowed the scope of the case. Even if the plaintiffs prevail, Seeley has said she would not order officials to formulate a new approach to address climate change.

Instead, the judge could issue what’s called a “declaratory judgment” saying officials violated the state Constitution. That would set a new legal precedent of courts weighing in on cases typically left to the government’s legislative and executive branches, environmental law expert Jim Huffman said.

Still, such a ruling would have no direct impact on industry, said Huffman, dean emeritus at Lewis & Clark Law School in Portland, Oregon.

“A declaratory judgment would be a symbolic victory, but would not require any particular action by the state government. So the state could, and likely would, proceed as before,” he said.

Youth environmentalists bring Montana climate case to trial after 12 years, seeking to set precedent

It’s the first trial of its kind in the U.S., and legal scholars around the world are following its potential addition to the small number of rulings that have established a government duty to protect people from climate change.

www.nbcnews.com

I don't have strong feelings about it either way.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Where did Nameless call them children? mtmuley

He did not. Poorly worded, my reference was aimed at marshman's message.
My primary response to Nameless was due to what I perceived as a misunderstanding of the basis for the lawsuit.

'Sorry you needed to challenge and correct me. But thanks for allowing clarification.

 

[mtmuley]

He did not. Poorly worded, my reference was aimed at marshman's message.
My primary response to Nameless was due to what I perceived as a misunderstanding of the basis for the lawsuit.

'Sorry you needed to challenge and correct me. But thanks for allowing clarification.

I just noticed you do it quite a bit. It wasn't a challenge. mtmuley

 

[Straight Arrow]

You won't get any arguments from me that many in the leg are "wacko". I didn't say they were children, but the OP did, and I would agree. The plaintiffs range from ages 5-22. I pulled the tooth out of my 5 year old's mouth yesterday. There's children in there.

That's really neither here nor there though. In the AP article I read yesterday, it said a victory would result in no meaningful change. I think that is really what makes me wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze.


In prior rulings, State District Judge Judge Kathy Seeley significantly narrowed the scope of the case. Even if the plaintiffs prevail, Seeley has said she would not order officials to formulate a new approach to address climate change.

Instead, the judge could issue what’s called a “declaratory judgment” saying officials violated the state Constitution. That would set a new legal precedent of courts weighing in on cases typically left to the government’s legislative and executive branches, environmental law expert Jim Huffman said.

Still, such a ruling would have no direct impact on industry, said Huffman, dean emeritus at Lewis & Clark Law School in Portland, Oregon.

“A declaratory judgment would be a symbolic victory, but would not require any particular action by the state government. So the state could, and likely would, proceed as before,” he said.

Youth environmentalists bring Montana climate case to trial after 12 years, seeking to set precedent

It’s the first trial of its kind in the U.S., and legal scholars around the world are following its potential addition to the small number of rulings that have established a government duty to protect people from climate change.

www.nbcnews.com

I don't have strong feelings about it either way.

I understand, but rampant speculation is premature. I say let the young people make their case.

 

[Schaaf]

It all just feels very unserious. I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I just noticed you do it quite a bit. mtmuley

Thanks. Your propensity to judge and insult is only exceeded by the offensiveness.
'Don't know why you continue to toss derogatory comments my way, but wish you'd get over it.
If I've done something to piss you off, let me know and you'll get a response ... and an apology if it's warranted.

 

[mtmuley]

Thanks. Your propensity to judge and insult is only exceeded by the offensiveness.
'Don't know why you continue to toss derogatory comments my way, but wish you'd get over it.
If I've done something to piss you off, let me know and you'll get a response ... and an apology if it's warranted.

Have a nice day SA. Oh, and I think the Busse kids are involved. Saw an article today. mtmuley

 

[Oak]

I pulled the tooth out of my 5 year old's mouth yesterday.

Is there video?

 

[Nameless Range]

Is there video?

Absolutely there is.

Bookended by the delighted cackles of a father with a blood-covered paw.

You really do need to get back on Facebook.

 

[KB_]

Absolutely there is.

Bookended by the delighted cackles of a father with a blood-covered paw.

You really do need to get back on Facebook.

I gotta do that on my kiddos tooth. Dang thing moved out front instead of coming out. Bout to break out the forceps and twist very quickly. He is gonna be pist!

 

[Deleted member 48080]

Oh, and I think the Busse kids are involved. Saw an article today.

What an absolute shocker.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I gotta do that on my kiddos tooth. Dang thing moved out front instead of coming out. Bout to break out the forceps and twist very quickly. He is gonna be pist!

"Here let me straighten that thing with these pliers. There, got it ... MY GAWD LOOK AT THAT BEAR IN THE WINDOW!" Problem solved.

 

[sccritterkiller]

I gotta do that on my kiddos tooth. Dang thing moved out front instead of coming out. Bout to break out the forceps and twist very quickly. He is gonna be pist!

None of ya'll use the dental floss trick...no mess,no tears...most of the time the only way my kids knew it was out was from the sound of it hitting the floor.

To the OPs question....define climate change..Climate has been changing as far back as we know. Until there is some proof that man influences climate change and to what extent that influence is, makes it difficult to litigate.

 

[marshman]

He did not. Poorly worded, my reference was aimed at marshman's message.
My primary response to Nameless was due to what I perceived as a misunderstanding of the basis for the lawsuit.

'Sorry you needed to challenge and correct me. But thanks for allowing clarification.

My use of the word children is in no way meant to be be disrespectable. That what I called my kids when young and my grandkids also. I think these young folks are really the best, and they do have a point to make.
They will be on this earth far longer than us old farts, and do deserve a planet that is not dying a slow death.
Good discussion.

 

[Irrelevant]

Ultimately, I wonder if it is doing more harm than good to our beautiful constitutional right to a “clean and healthful environment” - if this is putting a bull’s-eye on that.

This is firmly where my footing is, but for more reason's than just the one you mention.

Aside from that, how many of them aren't just reflecting their parents opinions? What do you really know sub 18? Not what you think you know. IDK maybe I'm focused a bit too hard on teaching humility as a parent.

 

[Nameless Range]

This is firmly where my footing is, but for more reason's than just the one you mention.

Aside from that, how many of them aren't just reflecting their parents opinions? What do you really know sub 18? Not what you think you know. IDK maybe I'm focused a bit too hard on teaching humility as a parent.

I don’t think you’re off at all.

It is hard for me to take the activism of children very seriously, as something they thought through on their own. If I am reading the articles correctly, a group is basically doing this in every state they possibly can, leveraging the voices of young people in those states in the name of this cause. I could talk my five year old and my nine year old - into joining a cause in the name of status and a sense of social belonging. Kids want those things the same as adults.

Further, what sort of ossification occurs in the brain of someone whose name is forever etched on the Internet in support of a cause - before they’re old enough to own a BB gun, drive a car, vote?

I don’t know, I said I wouldn’t say more and here I am doing it. It just seems like signaling and not much else. And nothing I’ve written has anything to do with my own positions on climate change.