Montana kids in court

[D_Walt]

We’re doomed…you guys should all turn in your tags that require fossil fuel powered travel to get to the trail head. I’ll do my best to put them to good use. I of course, as the organizer of this climate saving initiative, might just have to take one for the team and have just a small, insignificant carbon footprint to put the tags to good use. I’ll sell myself a carbon offset and skip mowing the yard for two weeks to sweeten the pot. You’re welcome.

 

[Ben Lamb]

We’re doomed…you guys should all turn in your tags that require fossil fuel powered travel to get to the trail head. I’ll do my best to put them to good use. I of course, as the organizer of this climate saving initiative, might just have to take one for the team and have just a small, insignificant carbon footprint to put the tags to good use. I’ll sell myself a carbon offset and skip mowing the yard for two weeks to sweeten the pot. You’re welcome.

The single largest carbon footprint is recreational flight.

You have to not mow your whole neighborhood to cover the first leg.

 

[Gr8bawana]

You presented your version of "facts" we provided our own facts, with links. If you want to counter and provide actual evidence that a volcano eruption does, in fact, produce more carbon dioxide than all of humanity in a year, please provide, I'll read it. If you want to present an argument for why a sample size of 2,000 isn't statistically sufficient then let's hear it. This is actual debate, this is how it works, the very nature of debate means "we don't agree with you."

 

[brocksw]

Yeah except the folks who originally blew the whistle about climate change were scientists working for Exxon.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abk0063

ooh ooh do a Clair Patterson reference next!

 

[Elky Welky]

Neither party disputed the existence/impact of human-caused climate change as this thread is now doing. The AG's office conceded that it is a real and pressing issue pretty early on in the trial.

The suit is more narrow than that. I watched closing arguments, and it was one of the more interesting cases I've seen of lawyers arguing past each other. Usually, attorneys take the facts presented and spin them in their favor, but the attorney for the youths spent far more time grandstanding about climate change, and I felt missed the mark on some of the more prescient and winning issues.

The AGs office, on the other hand, was just as unconvincing in their closing, by basically saying "sure, climate change is a real problem, but we aren't a big enough part of it so why should we bother to do anything about it?" I was particularly disturbed when they also argued that the courts were not the place to resolve this, but the legislature. Any of the plaintiffs under 18 can't vote, so there is no recourse for them in their elected leadership.

Because MT is one of the most explicit states to have a constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment, it makes complete sense to bring a test case through the courts here. I'm eager to see how this one turns out, and applaud the plaintiffs for their bravery.

 

[longbow51]

I think the reason many object to the approach to climate change is cognitive dissonance. All the major proponents seem to have several mansions, many on beachfront property, and fly 300K miles a year on private jets. Leo Di Caprio takes a helicopter to lunch from his massive yacht, yet wants us to eat bugs.

The latest "reach goals" for 2030 from the WEF is 0 meat, 0 private cars, 3 pieces of clothing per year, etc. And you can bet Sitka isn't on the list. And they all came on private jets. And the largest polluters of all get passes. And, of course, CBDC, and the first thing mentioned being limited in the "right to buy" category was ammunition.

All this while treating themselves to gourmet cuisine and the finest wine. The hippies in communes eating brown rice may have been crazy but at least they walked the walk.

I believe we should do all we can to fight pollution; pretty much with RFK on this; heck, I co-founded a chapter of the Sierra Club, but, like some other things, it was a different Sierra Club then. But rushing into wind and solar, without an overall net systems analysis of the cost/benefit and overall worldwide environmental assessment (not just NIMBY)
is folly. We have just seen the effects of rushing forward without adequate planning, leaving a generation of children damaged.

And RFK is also correct that major corporations have largely captured government agencies. Vivek and RDS comment on this as well. So all those government grant studies are going to show what the grantors want them to show, or, no more grants. There is no intellectual diversity at the university level, which leads to the 99%. So yeah, the ones you cancelled or didn't hire because they had diverse opinions lead to 99%.

99% also said the Covid vax was safe and effective, Covid didn't come from a lab, the laptop wasn't real, CIA agents, if not the actual CIA, didn't kill a sitting President, and the FBI investigated a sitting President for Russian collusion when they knew the opposition planted the story, yet no one spoke up.

So, somehow, we have to have a robust debate about all the issues around climate change before we start spraying stuff in the sky to cool the planet.

Pure hubris.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think the reason many object to the approach to climate change is cognitive dissonance. All the major proponents seem to have several mansions, many on beachfront property, and fly 300K miles a year on private jets. Leo Di Caprio takes a helicopter to lunch from his massive yacht, yet wants us to eat bugs.

The latest "reach goals" for 2030 from the WEF is 0 meat, 0 private cars, 3 pieces of clothing per year, etc. And you can bet Sitka isn't on the list. And they all came on private jets. And the largest polluters of all get passes. And, of course, CBDC, and the first thing mentioned being limited in the "right to buy" category was ammunition.

All this while treating themselves to gourmet cuisine and the finest wine. The hippies in communes eating brown rice may have been crazy but at least they walked the walk.

I believe we should do all we can to fight pollution; pretty much with RFK on this; heck, I co-founded a chapter of the Sierra Club, but, like some other things, it was a different Sierra Club then. But rushing into wind and solar, without an overall net systems analysis of the cost/benefit and overall worldwide environmental assessment (not just NIMBY)
is folly. We have just seen the effects of rushing forward without adequate planning, leaving a generation of children damaged.

And RFK is also correct that major corporations have largely captured government agencies. Vivek and RDS comment on this as well. So all those government grant studies are going to show what the grantors want them to show, or, no more grants. There is no intellectual diversity at the university level, which leads to the 99%. So yeah, the ones you cancelled or didn't hire because they had diverse opinions lead to 99%.

99% also said the Covid vax was safe and effective, Covid didn't come from a lab, the laptop wasn't real, CIA agents, if not the actual CIA, didn't kill a sitting President, and the FBI investigated a sitting President for Russian collusion when they knew the opposition planted the story, yet no one spoke up.

So, somehow, we have to have a robust debate about all the issues around climate change before we start spraying stuff in the sky to cool the planet.

Pure hubris.

 

[longbow51]

View attachment 283684

Took me a minute, but I am honored. Most of the "conspiracy theories" of the past few years are now established fact. Twitter files was a Godsend.

 

[D_Walt]

The single largest carbon footprint is recreational flight.

You have to not mow your whole neighborhood to cover the first leg.

Well sir, in that case I most certainly do agree and pledge to not mow my whole neighborhood.

I was merely making a tongue in cheek poke at some in the Climate Change awareness movement who preach reduced consumption while reaping the benefits that modern society and cheap abundant energy has provided.

 

[marshman]

The last 4 days up to yesterday were the hottest 4 days on plant earth - on record. It is amazing to me that anyone can ignore this and all of the science on the subject.
I also wonder how many "modern" hunters even on this site are actually conservationists with some of the comment's I read in this thread?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Took me a minute, but I am honored. Most of the "conspiracy theories" of the past few years are now established fact. Twitter files was a Godsend.

Just the first thing I thought of with the JFK reference.

What's the spraying stuff in the sky reference to?

 

[longbow51]

Just the first thing I thought of with the JFK reference.

What's the spraying stuff in the sky reference to?

White House is pushing ahead research to cool Earth by reflecting back sunlight

There are several kinds of sunlight-reflection technology, and none have been thoroughly researched due to a perceived moral hazard. But sentiment is shifting.

www.cnbc.com

Because, like, what could possibly go wrong? As if we have any clue, based on our very limited info since we have measurements of what has happened on our planet? And look at all the failed predictions of "science". And I am one.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

White House is pushing ahead research to cool Earth by reflecting back sunlight

There are several kinds of sunlight-reflection technology, and none have been thoroughly researched due to a perceived moral hazard. But sentiment is shifting.

www.cnbc.com

Because, like, what could possibly go wrong? As if we have any clue, based on our very limited info since we have measurements of what has happened on our planet? And look at all the failed predictions of "science". And I am one.

God that’s the premise to a Hollywood B move if I’ve ever heard one…

 

[seeth07]

The last 4 days up to yesterday were the hottest 4 days on plant earth - on record. It is amazing to me that anyone can ignore this and all of the science on the subject.
I also wonder how many "modern" hunters even on this site are actually conservationists with some of the comment's I read in this thread?

The earth has been way hotter and we are living in a very cold pattrrn of earths history. We are due to swing back to a time when there are no polar ice caps. So what if humans just speed that up? It will just excelerate the fall of the human race that is inevitable when global average Temps go from 60 degrees to 85 degrees. No seasons, hard to provide the food the human race needs.

 

[Elky Welky]

Regardless of the arguments about the reality and scope of climate change made by hunt talkers above, I would just reiterate that both sides in this trial accept human-caused climate change as both fact and a problem, and the subject matter of the trial was far more nuanced based upon legal issues and the Montana Constitution.

As the comments above illustrate, we are still making the same tired and debunked arguments from 20 years ago, whereas many of these young people who brought this suit weren't even alive when legislators started bringing snowballs into Congress to try to argue that global warming was a hoax.

Those are some brave young people who care significantly about their future and the joys of Montana's great outdoors, and I'm proud to know they cared enough about it to bring this case forward.

Because we, the generations above them, have quite clearly failed them.

 

[tjones]

Took me a minute, but I am honored. Most of the "conspiracy theories" of the past few years are now established fact. Twitter files was a Godsend.

Can I interest you in a FREE lifetime membership to 24 Hour Campfire?

 

[trackerbacker]

You presented your version of "facts" we provided our own facts, with links. If you want to counter and provide actual evidence that a volcano eruption does, in fact, produce more carbon dioxide than all of humanity in a year, please provide, I'll read it. If you want to present an argument for why a sample size of 2,000 isn't statistically sufficient then let's hear it. This is actual debate, this is how it works, the very nature of debate means "we don't agree with you."

Last I knew. And I could be entirely wrong, 100% wrong and I will look into clarifying it..

But doesn't .gov or .somebody only use 3 or 5 gasses to quantify climate change gasses? Gasi? Gaas?

Co2 wise, volcanoes can't touch what we produce quantity wise.

However, that's not a volcanoes chief discharge, s02 is, is it not? In which cause, is so2>co2 relative to harm to the climate and inhabitants?

So, in short, because co2 is more profitable, nay, 'damaging', it's the focus, as other gasses are measured in co2 equivalents. Hence carbon footprints and such.

But hey, I'm not a scientist looking at 200 years of weather data tonpredict the earth will implode in 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010, 2020, 2030 2040 if only I'm taxed a bit more, inconvenienced a bit more.

When they can tell me the exact weather in 2 days at 11:27am, from cloud count to humidity, barometer, temp, wind and direction, I'll admit they are on to something. until then, they can sit at the weird table with the purple hairs and the window lickers and getting picked on by the jocks for all I care.

Volcanoes Can Affect Climate | U.S. Geological Survey

www.usgs.gov

Watch One Year Of Carbon Emissions Take Over The Planet

A startling NASA animation lets you see how carbon emissions shroud the world.

time.com

Greenhouse Gas Equivalencies Calculator | US EPA

A calculator that allows users to translate abstract greenhouse gas amounts into concrete terms that are easy to understand.

www.epa.gov

 

[trackerbacker]

The last 4 days up to yesterday were the hottest 4 days on plant earth - on record. It is amazing to me that anyone can ignore this and all of the science on the subject.
I also wonder how many "modern" hunters even on this site are actually conservationists with some of the comment's I read in this thread?

How far back do your local record go?

When they news here comes on, they do hi/lo for the day, and that days recorded high record low.

Watching it for a week straight, the record hi/lo have no consistency as tomorrow record hi could've been 80 years from today's record hi.

I'm a conservationist, but I also understand the animal kingdom from disney. We come. We eat. We leave. However , re:Sierra club, I'm not in favor of some conservation standards where it's okay to hike and fish, and shoot squirrel, but majestics and trailriding with bikes motos or 4x's isn't allowed. More good for thee but not for me.

We won't stop anything, it will do, as unpredictably as possible, what it will do. You, I, nato, Un, taxes fines and regulations will not stop or slow it or alter it significantly.

But I don't buy into alkaline water and how it'll do something in a body designed to find homeostasis. Much like earth.

Don't ask me though, ask scientists how and why the climate changed as much prior to sapiens.

 

[trackerbacker]

The last 4 days up to yesterday were the hottest 4 days on plant earth - on record. It is amazing to me that anyone can ignore this and all of the science on the subject.
I also wonder how many "modern" hunters even on this site are actually conservationists with some of the comment's I read in this thread?

Direct question.

Have you reduced your carbon footprint?

 

[mtmiller]

Love these threads. Good reminder for me.

I think to myself reading threads on HT...."that guy is a little off" and then I see this thread "oh yeh, that guy is a moron".

Carry on.