Non resident Landowner incentive.

[Ben Lamb]

I don't think anything concerning Montana's wildlife is a "birthright". Anyway, Ben pardon my ignorance on the subject, but how does a license or tag fee increase become a reality? mtmuley

Resident license fee increase is a legislative action. NR is tied to the Consumer Price Index and has a basement price in statute.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I think there could be a lot of cuts to the department if nothing ever changes with conditions on the ground. In region 7 there are 4 biologists and 2 wildlife managers. They do a lot of flights and nothings changes off of counts. If wildlife management is static. Maybe we need to look to budget cuts to the department. Just trying to think outside the box. Other states are scrambling when populations go south ours just says everything looks good stay the course.

Maybe we can make up that money other ways.

Wildlife Bios do a lot more than just count deer & elk. They cover all species and even the ones we don't hunt & fish for. In many aspects, those nongame species are more important to the economies of rural Montana than the game species due to the litigation over ESA issues on critters with little to no data. Cutting those positions is a fast-track ticket to listing of the long eared myotis and the loss of energy jobs.

The department may indeed be able to withstand some revenue loss, but how you do it, with a full understanding of the revenue stream, where it goes and what it funds are needed. As of now, we don't have that. We have a lot of ideas and notions on Hunt Talk.

 

[brockel]

That's the problem though, let them squeal all they want. If you double the license fees and half of the squealers drop out, how's that a bad thing?

Less crowded, same revenue, and better hunting....win-win-win.

You and I think differently than fwp does. Obviously.

 

[mtmuley]

Resident license fee increase is a legislative action. NR is tied to the Consumer Price Index and has a basement price in statute.

I figured it was a legislative action. Explains why it's such a PITA to get it done. Thanks. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

Resident license fee increase is a legislative action.

And last time seriously considered for a fee increase before I was born...and I'm old, and grumpy apparently.

 

[Ben Lamb]

And last time seriously considered for a fee increase before I was born...and I'm old, and grumpy apparently.

It was 2016.

HB 140 from 2015 sought to find some long term fixes to the funding challenges, as well as get rid of a bunch of the free & reduced price licenses that had crept in. Since then, and because of the CPI NR licenses, the massive increase in NR license sales (2015 is when we started offering the orphaned deer licenses as well) and the increase in LWCF/PR/DJ funding there hasn't been a need to raise resident fees because revenue has been strong.

76% of the General License Account is from NR hunting licenses. Residents are wildly underrepresented here, and most residents are good with it. Until MT offers a higher quality hunt, I don't know that many residents will support $40 elk tags.

 

[SwaggyD]

...and I'm old, and grumpy apparently.

I find myself becoming more and more of both of those each day.

 

[DFS]

Montana hunting will be burnt down before it gets fixed by legislation. We just look at why we can’t do it. Somebody’s kid needs to hunt, fwp budget won’t allow, excuse after excuse.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Montana hunting will be burnt down before it gets fixed by legislation. We just look at why we can’t do it. Somebody’s kid needs to hunt, fwp budget won’t allow, excuse after excuse.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, I'm saying we need better data before we make a massive change that will have a boatload of unintended consequences.

 

[BuzzH]

It was 2016.

HB 140 from 2015 sought to find some long term fixes to the funding challenges, as well as get rid of a bunch of the free & reduced price licenses that had crept in. Since then, and because of the CPI NR licenses, the massive increase in NR license sales (2015 is when we started offering the orphaned deer licenses as well) and the increase in LWCF/PR/DJ funding there hasn't been a need to raise resident fees because revenue has been strong.

76% of the General License Account is from NR hunting licenses. Residents are wildly underrepresented here, and most residents are good with it. Until MT offers a higher quality hunt, I don't know that many residents will support $40 elk tags.

Right, because biologists and wardens are so grossly over-paid that there is no possible place to, you know, maybe attract and retain the best employees with some of that extra money with a Resident License fee increase.

I guess the pay is just too high and again a total mystery why biologists and wardens leave as soon as they get some experience.

Between the top-down Management, no way to apply any kind of science or change anything, and all that big $$$$...it's just so bizarre nobody sticks around?

Truly unbelievable.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Right, because biologists and wardens are so grossly over-paid that there is no possible place to, you know, maybe attract and retain the best employees with some of that extra money with a Resident License fee increase.

I guess the pay is just too high and again a total mystery why biologists and wardens leave as soon as they get some experience.

Between the top-down Management, no way to apply any kind of science or change anything, and all that big $$$$...it's just so bizarre nobody sticks around?

Truly unbelievable.

State employee pay is a legislative issue.

 

[BuzzH]

State employee pay is a legislative issue.

That everyone chooses to ignore. That will be dealt with about the same time as everything else that would help improve things in Montana for wildlife.

Is top-down management and biologists not being able to manage with science controlled by the Legislature?

Or is that just another one of those sore sphincter things that make it too tricky to deal with?

 

[BuzzH]

It was 2016.

HB 140 from 2015 sought to find some long term fixes to the funding challenges, as well as get rid of a bunch of the free & reduced price licenses that had crept in. Since then, and because of the CPI NR licenses, the massive increase in NR license sales (2015 is when we started offering the orphaned deer licenses as well) and the increase in LWCF/PR/DJ funding there hasn't been a need to raise resident fees because revenue has been strong.

76% of the General License Account is from NR hunting licenses. Residents are wildly underrepresented here, and most residents are good with it. Until MT offers a higher quality hunt, I don't know that many residents will support $40 elk tags.

Right Ben, I would be afraid to continue to ask for a Resident Fee increase, because its already so out of line price wise. In the 44 years since I bought my first elk and deer tags ($8 and $7)price has increased by $12 for elk, and $9 for deer.

Elk has increased in price a little more than a quarter and 2 pennies a year (.27 cents) and deer 2 dimes a year (.20).

That's embarrassing and I say it would be pretty easy to slay that dragon if a legislator can look you in the eye and say that's anything but gross, in every way, shape and form.

Any sorry excuse of a legislator that tried to tell me a fee increase wasn't warranted, I'd toss them a quarter, 2 dimes and 2 pennies and say, "I tend to disagree, and thanks for going all out for our wildlife"...

 

[Ben Lamb]

That everyone chooses to ignore. That will be dealt with about the same time as everything else that would help improve things in Montana for wildlife.

Is top-down management and biologists not being able to manage with science controlled by the Legislature?

Or is that just another one of those sore sphincter things that make it too tricky to deal with?

The state pay plan is one of the hottest debates of any session. Tons of negotiations & back & forth between unions and the state and the legislature. I'll tell them you want a seat at the table and that you'll have this shit whipped out in no time. I'm sure they'll appreciate the help.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Right Ben, I would be afraid to continue to ask for a Resident Fee increase, because its already so out of line price wise. In the 44 years since I bought my first elk and deer tags ($8 and $7)price has increased by $12 for elk, and $9 for deer.

Elk has increased in price a little more than a quarter and 2 pennies a year (.27 cents) and deer 2 dimes a year (.20).

That's embarrassing and I say it would be pretty easy to slay that dragon if a legislator can look you in the eye and say that's anything but gross, in every way, shape and form.

Any sorry excuse of a legislator that tried to tell me a fee increase wasn't warranted, I'd toss them a quarter, 2 dimes and 2 pennies and say, "I tend to disagree, and thanks for going all out for our wildlife"...

 

[antlerradar]

Wildlife Bios do a lot more than just count deer & elk. They cover all species and even the ones we don't hunt & fish for. In many aspects, those nongame species are more important to the economies of rural Montana than the game species due to the litigation over ESA issues on critters with little to no data. Cutting those positions is a fast-track ticket to listing of the long eared myotis and the loss of energy jobs.

The department may indeed be able to withstand some revenue loss, but how you do it, with a full understanding of the revenue stream, where it goes and what it funds are needed. As of now, we don't have that. We have a lot of ideas and notions on Hunt Talk.

While I agree with what you have said, FWP will always be fighting an up hill battle convincing many that bios are needed as long as they continue to use the law of diminishing returns to manage hunter distribution.

 

[BuzzH]

View attachment 271103

Well on the plus side, resident elk tags should be $32 and deer tags $25 by 2067.

#winning

 

[golfer]

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, I'm saying we need better data before we make a massive change that will have a boatload of unintended consequences.

So why didn’t any group push for such a simple bill requiring mandatory reporting this session? Would have been something it seems all groups would rally behind.

 

[golfer]

Right Ben, I would be afraid to continue to ask for a Resident Fee increase, because its already so out of line price wise. In the 44 years since I bought my first elk and deer tags ($8 and $7)price has increased by $12 for elk, and $9 for deer.

Elk has increased in price a little more than a quarter and 2 pennies a year (.27 cents) and deer 2 dimes a year (.20).

That's embarrassing and I say it would be pretty easy to slay that dragon if a legislator can look you in the eye and say that's anything but gross, in every way, shape and form.

Any sorry excuse of a legislator that tried to tell me a fee increase wasn't warranted, I'd toss them a quarter, 2 dimes and 2 pennies and say, "I tend to disagree, and thanks for going all out for our wildlife"...

What was the migratory 44 years ago? I believe a bill went through lowering the resident migratory license and doubling or tripling the NR.

 

[cgasner1]

So why didn’t any group push for such a simple bill requiring mandatory reporting this session? Would have been something it seems all groups would rally behind.

If only we had a brand new e tag system we could make it a part of