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NM Outfitters Draw (Resident vs Non Resident)

hunter72

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Mar 29, 2020
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Location
Oregon
Here is my take on this Resident, Nonresident take on this highly competitive argument.
I have to admit writing and not thinking and just putting down issues that have meant so much to many especially the Residents of this wonderful State NM.
In writing my initial comment what was supposed to come out was the fact that many and I mean many residents have brought to my attention that they are greatly disgusted with not so much the Landowner, But the outfitter number of tags given out each year.
When You look at the issue of the outfitter draw the largest % of people putting in that draw are Non-Residents which is 10% I believe of the draw and another 6% is supposed to go to the remaining number of non-Res who doesn't want to pay for or cannot afford to pay for an outfitter which is in excess of $6500. or more depending on the unit and in some cases as Much As 10,000. OR more.
I have been putting in for these hunts with my son and the hunts we are putting in for our percentages are as low as 1% and as High as 3% if we are lucky. Now if my percentages are off a little, please correct that on the 10% vs 6% if I'm wrong. Now that is 16 % of the draw from what I see.
But however, it works which I do not understand that if there is 16% out there and only 6% for non-residents. How in the hell is it that the Non res applying has such bad odds with 1-3% of the draw. where is all those draws going it's not Non-Res unless the outfitter draw is scooping them up and yes with Non Res.
Maybe I'm dumb but it makes no sense.
I hear all the time on here about the non res taking all the draws away from the residents. If we are going to blame, then isn't it a fact that the outfitter draw is making a killing here.
I'm not complaining here these are just things I hear on here and it's an ongoing crazy situation. It's not the Non-Residents fault we did not make these state hunting laws, and we abide by them as we should. Tell me if I'm so wrong I can take it. I just can't understand.
Here is another issue brought to my attention and it was a good one to say the least. why? Doesn't the state look at the facts that if they have a healthy resident unhappy population? of Hunters that they do not look into a healthier way to make them happy. I guess some will say to stop the Whining. Deal with it. But! Then there are the large majority that says why? Just why? can't the state have a 90 % Resident draw and a straight 10% Non-Res draw. Then the landowners get their numbers of tags based on the amount of property owned to do as they see fit. Those tags are an issue the state can figure out of whether it's shared with the Res and Non Res percentages.
This is what was brought to my attention, and I mean quite a few times and by residents.
Maybe that would eliminate the blame of the Nonresidents sucking up most of the tags generated in the Draw. Because the average Joe Non res is lucky to get 1-3percentin the draw. Your outfitters are getting most of the resident draws.
I had one guy say he went to an outfitter to put him in for the hunts and when he found he was a NM resident he was turned down as the outfitter did not want him to learn his honey holes. Or there would be many more NM hunters putting in alongside the Non Res in the Outfitter Draws.
Now I apologize for the wrong wording in my first writing and this in long is what I was actually wanting to put down. Sorry all! Mike72
 
Surprised you are making a 2nd run at this. Give up, you are correct that your first thread was awfully presented and so is this one.

When you lead with “I have to admit writing and not thinking and just putting down issues that have meant so much to many especially the Residents of this wonderful State NM.” Just stop writing?
 
Currently on an outfitted Barbary sheep hunt in New Mexico that I drew without these guys. After I drew I decided to go this route and contacted them and booked. My guide has told me he won’t guide residents because he has been hunting these sheep for over 20 years and doesn’t wanna show them where and how he hunts to kill these mature rams. Don’t blame him when for them they get a tag every few years.
 
The outfitter pool sucks.
My odds of getting a OR tag have sucked since the late 70's.

So I quit appyling there...
the outfitter pool definitely does suck big time. You don't want to hunt OR anyway it sucks also, and I live here and know how bad or HAS BECOME.
 
Surprised you are making a 2nd run at this. Give up, you are correct that your first thread was awfully presented and so is this one.

When you lead with “I have to admit writing and not thinking and just putting down issues that have meant so much to many especially the Residents of this wonderful State NM.” Just stop
 
So sorry professor I'm not an English major and write the way I see it.
If you don't like so, be it.
This has come from so many residents there has to be more to than what you think. Obviously!
 
Surprised you are making a 2nd run at this. Give up, you are correct that your first thread was awfully presented and so is this one.

When you lead with “I have to admit writing and not thinking and just putting down issues that have meant so much to many especially the Residents of this wonderful State NM.” Just stop writing?
Khunter what is your story on the outfitter draw? would love to hear this one?
 
I’m in a different state getting ready to guide yet another sheep hunt.
We will have guided over 10% of all sheep tags in the state this year, with no outfitter set aside.
It’s almost like in a capitalistic system, the performers get business without gov handouts.
NM should improve the quality of their outfitting industry by eliminating these subsidies.
 
"But however, it works which I do not understand that if there is 16% out there and only 6% for non-residents. How in the hell is it that the Non res applying has such bad odds with 1-3% of the draw. where is all those draws going it's not Non-Res unless the outfitter draw is scooping them up and yes with Non Res."

You need to look at the number of applicants to see why the odds of drawing are 1-3%. All that stuff is published.
 
Here is my take on this Resident, Nonresident take on this highly competitive argument.
I have to admit writing and not thinking and just putting down issues that have meant so much to many especially the Residents of this wonderful State NM.
In writing my initial comment what was supposed to come out was the fact that many and I mean many residents have brought to my attention that they are greatly disgusted with not so much the Landowner, But the outfitter number of tags given out each year.
When You look at the issue of the outfitter draw the largest % of people putting in that draw are Non-Residents which is 10% I believe of the draw and another 6% is supposed to go to the remaining number of non-Res who doesn't want to pay for or cannot afford to pay for an outfitter which is in excess of $6500. or more depending on the unit and in some cases as Much As 10,000. OR more.
I have been putting in for these hunts with my son and the hunts we are putting in for our percentages are as low as 1% and as High as 3% if we are lucky. Now if my percentages are off a little, please correct that on the 10% vs 6% if I'm wrong. Now that is 16 % of the draw from what I see.
But however, it works which I do not understand that if there is 16% out there and only 6% for non-residents. How in the hell is it that the Non res applying has such bad odds with 1-3% of the draw. where is all those draws going it's not Non-Res unless the outfitter draw is scooping them up and yes with Non Res.
Maybe I'm dumb but it makes no sense.
I hear all the time on here about the non res taking all the draws away from the residents. If we are going to blame, then isn't it a fact that the outfitter draw is making a killing here.
I'm not complaining here these are just things I hear on here and it's an ongoing crazy situation. It's not the Non-Residents fault we did not make these state hunting laws, and we abide by them as we should. Tell me if I'm so wrong I can take it. I just can't understand.
Here is another issue brought to my attention and it was a good one to say the least. why? Doesn't the state look at the facts that if they have a healthy resident unhappy population? of Hunters that they do not look into a healthier way to make them happy. I guess some will say to stop the Whining. Deal with it. But! Then there are the large majority that says why? Just why? can't the state have a 90 % Resident draw and a straight 10% Non-Res draw. Then the landowners get their numbers of tags based on the amount of property owned to do as they see fit. Those tags are an issue the state can figure out of whether it's shared with the Res and Non Res percentages.
This is what was brought to my attention, and I mean quite a few times and by residents.
Maybe that would eliminate the blame of the Nonresidents sucking up most of the tags generated in the Draw. Because the average Joe Non res is lucky to get 1-3percentin the draw. Your outfitters are getting most of the resident draws.
I had one guy say he went to an outfitter to put him in for the hunts and when he found he was a NM resident he was turned down as the outfitter did not want him to learn his honey holes. Or there would be many more NM hunters putting in alongside the Non Res in the Outfitter Draws.
Now I apologize for the wrong wording in my first writing and this in long is what I was actually wanting to put down. Sorry all! Mike72
Non-residents are not guaranteed a percentage but may draw up to a certain percentage.
 
I hate the NM outfitter pool. Hate, hate, hate it. I had never given it too much thought until this year when I showed up to my favorite spot on a hunt I maybe draw once every three years. An outfitter had set up a giant camp a half mile from where we've always camped, at the convergence of three drainages. This outfitter had three Wall tents, one the size of a small walmart. Seven side-by-sides, seven trucks, and all three tents pumping wood smoke.
In years past elk would migrate down this drainage at night, despite the occasional small camp. I can't tell you how many times I've woken to cow and calf calls in the middle of the night. This trip: not once. No way in hell were they going past this small resort.
One of my favorite hunting spots was another of these drainages, where elk would feed up in the mornings, but again, not only no elk, but not a dropping less than months old.
I should have left, obviously, but I have so much experience in this area that I thought I'd overcome it by hunting rough back country where I've always found elk, but that would be out of reach for someone with a client. But what I failed to consider was that this outfitter had every water source for miles camera'd up. In retrospect, he's probably had clients hunting all the water sources (which are all relatively close to the road) for two months before I got there. It's not so much that they drove the elk out by venturing into the back country, but with every drop of water covered, I don't think the elk had a choice but to leave the area.
I put on about 15 miles a day looking for any fresh sign in an area about 5 x 3 miles that has always been full of elk. I jumped one bull, so far back he was probably watering on the other side of the mountain, and spotted two cows.

So my problem with this outfitter's camp is that it is literally subsidized by the outfitter tag pool. I wasn't just competing against the elk, I was competing against people getting paid to be out there for the whole season and probably much of the summer scouting. Hunting welfare queens. I don't have a problem with outfitters existing if they earn their keep by being good and getting clients through competition. But I am convinced the subsidized outfitter pool creates crappy outfitter set ups to pump and dump hunters at a high volume. I listened to a podcast this summer with an outfitter who openly admitted that many of the outfitter pool hunters weren't getting good guides, because they can opt to go it on their own after a couple a days! It's a garbage system!

I appreciate a good guide, I'm happy to use a guide for fishing in places I've never been, but we don't need to subsidize outfitters. If every outfitter disappeared tomorrow the world would go on just fine. They aren't plumbers or teachers or doctors for god's sake. I say throw those tags into the non-res pool. We'll still benefit economically from hunters coming here, they'll still buy things. They might even make an extra trip to NM to scout. And sooo many more applications would come in to NMDGF by bucking the trend and increasing the non res draw pool it would be a windfall.

End of rant.

Oh one more thing, I hate the outfitter tag pool.
 

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