Montana Rifle Elk - Gonna be a good one

[thecrittergitter]

I am new to this site and after reading the reply's on this thread I have to ask the question. It appears that most on this thread agree that wingman is an unethical hunter based soley on the word of Big Fin. I don't know Big Fin, he is probably a great guy and an avid hunter but from what I have read he also flew into this spot with a helicopter. How did he find the spot, I know where he was hunting and I also know for a fact that this particular piece of land is land locked by private property so some scouting must have been done on his part in order for him to get there int he first place. Please do not get me wrong, I do not condone or condem either of these guys for what they have done or what they have said. I just think you have to look and listen to both sides of the story before you start judging people. If wingman was in the area trying to recover a bull he had stuck previously with a bow, wouldn't this be considered the ethical thing to do. I teach my kids that they need to exhaust all possibilities, within the boundaries of the law, to recover an animal that we shoot. Maybe he was fling low to try and find this bull to try and do the ethical thing. Maybe he's a poacher, who knows I don't and neither do you. Why didn't Big Fin ask if he could assist wingman in any way to try and help him find the wounded bull instead of bashing him on his website. Wouldn't that have been the ethical thing to do? All I am saying is there is always two sides to every story!

Just a couple of points here. Correct there are always two sides, cant wait to hear wings.....

But, as mentioned, Randy is known by many people on this site as likely being one of the most ethical hunters on the planet so it is not likely that someone would assume his story as BS.
Second, it has been a long time since wingman or buddy stuck an arrow in mr prize bull, so yes, they may have been looking for the same bull, but it wasn't to recover a wounded animal at that point.
Third, go back and read the first 5 things ol wingnut posted. It wasn't just taking Randy word for it, you could tell by his postings that the guy is an azzhole.

All things considered, look forward to the story............Maybe as he has said, maybe the audio will tell the story that he is the nicest, most ethical guy out there
Guess ill listen to it on a 14 hour drive to new mexico this week

 

[Point Creep]

In all fairness.. If I walk 5-10 miles somewhere, or just have a plan to hunt a particular little place, if somebody's sitting there when I show up, they are going to have to accept the fact that they have company, not that I'd expect them to leave. Cause I sure ain't unless plan B is good and readily available.

 

[noharleyyet]

Bout got my azz run over a few times trying to read this soap piece in Ft Worth traffic on my Crackberry. Be tough for me to ever doubt Fin's verity. That said I'm looking fwd to wingdude's account. Sure hoping he ain't just another azzclown troll who hunts like he posts.

...had to laugh at Greeny's Jersey Shore quip...hard.

 

[idnative1948]

In all fairness.. If I walk 5-10 miles somewhere, or just have a plan to hunt a particular little place, if somebody's sitting there when I show up, they are going to have to accept the fact that they have company, not that I'd expect them to leave. Cause I sure ain't unless plan B is good and readily available.

Then it is safe to assume that if I did that to you, you would be cool with it? Not trying to start anything just checking to make sure if it is cool...

 

[Point Creep]

I'd be bummed, but chances are slim to none that's gonna happen. If it does, I'm up for a footrace and stunt shot competition.

 

[idnative1948]

I'd be bummed, but chances are slim to none that's gonna happen. If it does, I'm up for a footrace and stunt shot competition.

Good one! Funny.... This gimpy old man might just keep up with you as long as it is uphill, but downhill you might lose me. As far as this subject is concerned I am closing it out as I don't want to be walking on Randy's post.

 

[Point Creep]

Uphill, you'll need a George Jetson rocketpack and technology hasn't come along that far yet. With my unbelievable pace and powerful exhaust fumes, you wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[belly-deep]

Uphill, you'll need a George Jetson rocketpack and technology hasn't come along that far yet. With my unbelievable pace and powerful exhaust fumes, you wouldn't stand a chance.

I hate to admit this because the guy doesn't need a bigger ego than he already has, BUT...the evidence suggests that this guy is nearly non-human in his physical hunting endeavors...

 

[schmalts]

I hate to admit this because the guy doesn't need a bigger ego than he already has, BUT...the evidence suggests that this guy is nearly non-human in his physical hunting endeavors...

I would say he is not human on the exhaust fume part.. I have done a few elk hikes with him and he seems to enjoy making you gag even with a ten foot gap

 

[AZ402]

pride hunt.

That'll be the name of the thread if Dinkshooter and schmalts ever team up on a hunt.

 

[WT_in_MT]

If Randy was more like me, he would have set right down next to these assclowns and dumped...

Now that, I could believe.

 

[cadman59501]

Congrats on another great write up and a great hunt

 

[Drake4]

Holy drama. If Randy was more like me, he would have set right down next to these assclowns and dumped that prize bull they were wanting so bad. That would have made some serious entertainment... Jersey Shore meets the Outdoor Channel.

I would have paid to have watched Bart drop the lead cow as soon as she crossed the fence.

 

[Big Fin]

Wow, this has grown a life of its own. Not what I intended when I posted my version of the interactions Wingman and his fellow hunter from Day One.

I had hoped this thread would be about creative ways to access lands normally inaccessible and about a different spin on an On Your Own hunt. Hopefully it will go back to that.

It was too windy for the chopper to get us this morning, so they came in this afternoon. Just walked in the door and now trying to read all of this.

I would encourage Wingman to post his version of events of the evening before opener, and the opening day, if he feels that it is different from what I posted. He may feel his actions were different from what I posted, or he may feel his actions as I posted them were appropriate for a hunt on public land. If so, he and I will just have to disagree on that.

If he does feel it necessary to post his accounts of that day to dispell what I have posted, or to try dismiss conclusions that others have drawn of him from his short time here on the site, that would be welcomed.

BRNG has asked some questions, which I think were pointed to me, so I will take the time to answer them.

I am new to this site and after reading the reply's on this thread I have to ask the question. It appears that most on this thread agree that wingman is an unethical hunter based soley on the word of Big Fin.

I did not use the word "unethical." I think I used the term "least respectful" and stand by that assessment now, and will forever. I suspect the guys here are some of the most serious hunters around, and base their opinions on much more than what I say or type. Here is the quote I provided, and it does not use the word "unethical."

In their quest to shoot the biggest bull around, they have proven to be some of the least respectful hunters I have ever encountered. If they read this and email me, I can send them the entire audio track of the discussion.

It is public land, so we all have the same right to be here. Just takes a different kind of hunter to buzz a camp, know exactly where it is, then come and set up right in the middle of that location, within a couple hundred yards of the camp and those hunters. Hope you get your bull, M***.

To me, that was the end of worrying about it. The following day, when they had shot their bull, I posted that such was "good for them," even if by complete happenstance, there good fortune and hard work resulted in our opportunity not coming together. Them being in that spot was a complete accident, and happens on public land. Here is my quote of the events of that day.

I walk over the ridge to our left to see what the cow smelled/ saw. The two guys from yesterday were there. Good for them to have shot a bull.

I thought that would be the end of it, only to find Wingman registered and posting here, which is just fine with me.

I don't know Big Fin, he is probably a great guy and an avid hunter but from what I have read he also flew into this spot with a helicopter. How did he find the spot, I know where he was hunting and I also know for a fact that this particular piece of land is land locked by private property so some scouting must have been done on his part in order for him to get there int he first place.

Here is how I found the spot. I know many people who have hunted the general area on both public and private land. They have told me of the quality of elk there and the fact that most reside on private land. Five years ago I started to apply there. Gave up on it for a year and then applied again this year.

For you to assume that some scouting must have been done on his part in order for him to get there int he first place would be incorrect, other than the scouting I did from my desk. We went in cold. But, if I ever go in again, I have learned a lot from this trip.

If wingman was in the area trying to recover a bull he had stuck previously with a bow, wouldn't this be considered the ethical thing to do. I teach my kids that they need to exhaust all possibilities, within the boundaries of the law, to recover an animal that we shoot. Maybe he was fling low to try and find this bull to try and do the ethical thing.

Maybe. But, with us (our group on the ground and him from the air) having just seen the bull the night before, and the bull was doing perfectly fine, I doubt the reason for going after the bull was mercy and ethics. He made it pretty clear that he was sitting in front of us for the purpose of shooting THAT bull, a bull which I don't fault him for wanting to shoot - it was a huge bull. But, I suspect it was not out of concern of finishing off a wounded bull. Again, that is just my opinion from that conversation.

Maybe he's a poacher, who knows I don't and neither do you.

I don't know where anyone said that. I have not had time to read every post by every person.

Why didn't Big Fin ask if he could assist wingman in any way to try and help him find the wounded bull instead of bashing him on his website. Wouldn't that have been the ethical thing to do? All I am saying is there is always two sides to every story!

I don't find my recounting the events as they happened, from my perspective, to be bashing. If you do, that is your prerogative.

The reason I wasn't too worried about finding the wounded bull, was because we all saw the bull the night before, and he was just fine. If I encountered another hunter in search of a recently wounded animal, I would do what I can to help.

When that person does a flyover of our camp, looks over all the elk from the air the evening before, then comes and plants himself right in front of us and within site of what he knows to be our camp, I am not too concerned about helping him.

And when he tells me he hit a bull in archery season, a season that had been closed for six days, I don't expect a mortally wounded bull to still be running the hills six days later.

So, I would disagree with you that in that situation, the ethical thing would have been to drop my hunt and "assist wingman in any way to try and help him find the wounded bull ....."

If that is what you would have done in that situation, good on you. Just not what I would do.

All I am saying is there is always two sides to every story!

I agree that there are two sides to every story. Wingman had plenty of opportunity to post his and may yet do so.

If that is all you are saying, it took you a lot of other words and interjections to get there.



I hope this is the end of all this drama. Really not constructive. If Wingman feels compelled to tell his side of the events, he is more than capable of doing so.

Until then, I apologize that this thread got out of hand. Hopefully it will continue, but with a more constructive tone.

 

[Oak]

Did Bart get an elk while you were waiting for the chopper?

 

[Big Fin]

Did Bart get an elk while you were waiting for the chopper?

No, all the smart elk had migrated to some place where the wind blows less than 50 mph. If they walked in front of the tent, I am not sure he would have shot one and not sure if Troy would have been willing to film it.

 

[tjones]

Now thats one class act Randy. Good job.

 

[Lawnboy]

I would have paid to have watched Bart drop the lead cow as soon as she crossed the fence.

That would of got everyone hot I vowed that I wouldn't screw up a chance for Randy by shooting a cow before he had a chance at one of the whopper herd bulls.

Thanks for the invite Randy it was truely a once in a lifetime opportunity. I was a bit of a weeny about the chopper ride in the tornado this morning but it was a cool experience. I've never had an opportunity to be that close to literally hundreds of elk running through the timber not more than 60 yards away. Not spooked though just doing their daily routine heading to dinner. The sound of the hooves was eerie almost but incredible. Congrats to Wingman for his bull but it turned out to be terrible bad luck as the herd we were following went right to the meadow where he was cutting up his bull. They were on their way down with less than 300 feet for the sweet herd bull(bigger than mine) to cross when they smelled or saw Wingman and spun the other direction. That happened to be the worst luck I think I've ever seen on a hunt. Oh well it happens.

 

[Devil Diver Down]

You guys and your arguing... Come on. Can't you be better men? A DIY hunter colides with a DIY hunter on public land and all hell breaks loose. Classic. This looks more and more like a pride hunt.

I'm with nectar on this one--sounds like a pretty small area they were hunting and bumping into each other isn't unheard of--I could see how both parties might be correct-ish.

If wingman hadn't started posting comments like a jackwagon, then the buzzing might be seen as accidental. Same with the hunting near Fin's camp.

I'll get the popcorn, somebody else bring the sodas as I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this drama.

Congrats to Fin on another last minute success! You're having a helluva year, Randy!

 

[Khunter]

Did Bart get an elk while you were waiting for the chopper?

A man who keeps his eye on the ball! Great question, Oak.

Great hunt Randy, thanks for taking us along. Not surprised in the least that an extraordinary (and successful) effort to hunt public ground that for practical purposes is inaccessible and thus subject to a very few people feeling entitled over time to use it exclusively would generate such acrimony--and quickly. Hope you do the same/similar hunt again soon. You are doing good work.