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Oak

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Please read and give me your opinions on this article. I'd like to wait to give you my thoughts. It's an interesting piece.

Ranchers eye protection for canyon

By BOBBY MAGILL
The Daily Sentinel
Sunday, November 25, 2007

MONTROSE COUNTY — Atop a knob overlooking the lower extremities of Roubideau Canyon, silence and splendor between the multi-hued sandstone cliffs can be nearly overpowering.

The meandering crevasse in the Uncompahgre Plateau west of Delta is as wild as a well-grazed desert canyon can be: Salt seeps leave behind a delicate white rime on the sandstone, inviting one to tiptoe gingerly across the rock. Trout dart about in shaded pools beneath large boulders, seemingly long forgotten by both time and anglers seeking aquatic trophy.
Cattle hoof prints spread across the canyon floor following a well-worn trail that crosses the stream dozens of times before ending on private land.

For cattle rancher Larry Jensen, Roubideau Canyon is a lasting, wild symbol of the Uncompahgre Plateau’s proud ranching history, one he hopes will survive the Western Slope’s population, development and recreation boom.

Jensen, who lives in Crawford, owns a grazing allotment in the Bureau of Land Management-administered Roubideau Canyon and a private inholding at its edge, where the canyon and the mesas above its rim become part of the 10,402-acre Camelback Wilderness Study Area.

“I think the ranchers have the biggest investment because their livelihood is derived from it,” he said. “I do own an inholding in Roubideau Canyon, which I am concerned about.”

Jensen said he fears the all-terrain-vehicle driving and boot-clad hiking masses and maybe even oil, gas and other mineral development could threaten his ranching operation in Roubideau Canyon, where grazing allotments date to the 19th century.

The canyon, he said, needs permanent protection.

“Anybody who can put down $100 on a four-wheeler can go outside and tear (up) all the land he wants up,” Jensen said. “They feel public land gives them license to do whatever they want. That flies in the face of proper land management. ... That’s having a detrimental effect to a fragile ecosystem, (and) the first ones to get blamed are the grazers.”

Grazing, Jensen said, takes a toll on the canyon for a while, but in the long term, it’s much healthier for the ecosystem than the damage careless off-road vehicles often do to the land.

He’s not alone in calling for permanent protection for Roubideau Canyon, which is only temporarily protected by the wilderness-study-area status.

“I’d like to see it protected to maintain its unique nature, so ranchers can continue doing what they’ve been doing for 100 years,” said rancher Jim Graziano, who owns a grazing allotment on Monitor Mesa just above Roubideau Canyon and private property nearby.

“The special aspect is its isolation,” he said. “When you go up there and you sit, you can imagine you’re the only person in the world. No traffic. No power lines. No cell phone coverage. Just you and nature.”

Graziano and Jensen have joined the Colorado Environmental Coalition in calling for Congress, local government and the public to take notice of Roubideau Canyon, a place they say needs attention now because the Dominguez-Escalante Canyons National Conservation Area proposal may soon get an airing on Capitol Hill.

The idea has the support of the Montrose County Commission, which would like to see Roubideau preserved in a national conservation area, perhaps as an eventual expansion to the proposed Dominguez-Escalante National Conservation Area if Congress creates it, Commissioner Bill Patterson said.

“We haven’t really officially done (anything on) this yet,” Patterson said.

The commissioners, he said, want to have a multiple-use national conservation area around Roubideau that could attract people to Montrose County.

“It’s really just a lovely place,” he said. “These are the places people look for, the kind of the Wild West people dream of, and it’s right there, very close to Montrose.”

The proposed Dominguez conservation area’s southern boundaries would be a few miles to the northwest of Roubideau Canyon. The canyon has not been a prominent part of public discussions about Dominguez, which has received conditional support from Montrose, Delta and Mesa county commissioners who insist the national conservation area be required to allow traditional ranching there to continue.

The commissioners said they want ranchers’ motorized access to the Dominguez area to continue, something sometimes precluded if an area becomes a wilderness.

The public attention some ranchers and conservationists want to draw to Roubideau Canyon shouldn’t necessarily result in a wilderness designation, said Jim Riddell of the Colorado Environmental Coalition.

The BLM recommended against a wilderness designation for the canyon in a 1991 report about the future of the Camelback study area because “there is nothing to really set the area apart,” and it is geologically uninteresting. Scenic vistas, the agency reported, are marred by roads and jeep trails.

Not so, Graziano and Riddell say.

“There’s an amazing diversity of topology and flora and fauna,” Graziano said.

Riddell calls Roubideau rife with surprises, a place of immense solitude difficult to find anywhere else nearby.

Roubideau should be off-limits to recreational motorized and mechanized vehicle use, he said, but ranchers should be allowed to continue their operations without the burden of having to deal with a wilderness designation.

“The concept of wilderness scares a lot of people because what it implies is there’s absolutely no mechanical vehicles or equipment allowed,” Jensen said. “It scares the hell out of people.”

He said he wants Roubideau managed so the ecological integrity of the land can be preserved without excessive recreational use.

But any effort to keep recreational motorized use out of Roubideau Canyon for much longer will meet fierce opposition from off-road-vehicle users, who consider the current regulations for the canyon too restrictive because Roubideau would be a perfect place to go four-wheeling in the winter, said Walt Blackburn of the Thunder Mountain Wheelers in Delta.

“What we like about it is it’s in the low country, and it’s accessible for winter time and early spring use after the snow goes off,” he said.
Blackburn said he’d like to see Roubideau included in a national conservation area wide open to motorized vehicles.

It would take an act of Congress to give the canyon the protections ranchers want or to shed the current wilderness study area moniker.

Blackburn said he is unaware of any current off-road-vehicle use in Roubideau Canyon, and he has never heard a complaint from any of the area’s grazing permittees.

Jensen said he’ll keep fighting for the canyon, joining hands with environmental groups often demonized by other ranchers.

“Some of the ranching community are really upset with me because they don’t understand,” Jensen said. “A lot of them feel that the environmental groups are the enemy, and quite the opposite is true. (I had) the realization that the environmentalists and ranchers are allies in the fight.”

There’s a lot of the deep-seated resentment between the two groups, but with the future of Roubideau Canyon in the balance, there is much more to be gained in an alliance with environmentalists than there is to be lost, he said.

“I see it as an opportunity to limit the amount of special interests and recreation use in a very fragile ecosystem,” he said.
 
Well.. I thought it started with alot of big words and was to long to read. But thats just my .02 :D
 
Sounds to me like someone wants to keep it all to himself. He owns a small portion of rights but does not want others to own it also. He uses mechanized transportation but wants others denied. He is blind to cattle trails which are scoured into the terrain and last for decades but he sees ATV's as destructive to the environment. He wants 'modified wilderness' dedication to keep looky-lou's to a minimum while stating that one of the main attributes is scenic views.
I cannot have my cake and eat it too, neither can you.
I prefer no ATVs, so I agree on this point, but my personal desires do not cloud my judgment as much as his seem to.
 
He said he wants Roubideau managed so the ecological integrity of the land can be preserved without excessive recreational use.

...so, lock it up, except for grazing?

Oak, I'm assuming 'owning an allotment' and an 'inholding' are comparative terms, 'inholding' sounding a bit proprietary.
 
Some flowery writing here.......

The meandering crevasse in the Uncompahgre Plateau west of Delta is as wild as a well-grazed desert canyon can be: Salt seeps leave behind a delicate white rime on the sandstone, inviting one to tiptoe gingerly across the rock. Trout dart about in shaded pools beneath large boulders, seemingly long forgotten by both time and anglers seeking aquatic trophy. Cattle hoof prints spread across the canyon floor following a well-worn trail that crosses the stream dozens of times before ending on private land.

The title should be "Rancher eye's protection for canyon", not "Ranchers eye protection for canyon".
 
His point that 4 wheeling really tears it up is a good one. It points out lots of competing desires for multiple uses of public land.
 
the Author is at least half Queer and has never worked a hard day in his life.
 
Sounds to me like someone wants to keep it all to himself. He owns a small portion of rights but does not want others to own it also. He uses mechanized transportation but wants others denied. He is blind to cattle trails which are scoured into the terrain and last for decades but he sees ATV's as destructive to the environment. He wants 'modified wilderness' dedication to keep looky-lou's to a minimum while stating that one of the main attributes is scenic views.
I cannot have my cake and eat it too, neither can you.
I prefer no ATVs, so I agree on this point, but my personal desires do not cloud my judgment as much as his seem to.

Well said. I think if the rancher wants it protected from everyone but himself he's off his rocker. Sacrifices will have to be made by everyone. Make it a wilderness area and the rancher can buy a horse with the gas he'll save by not driving his truck around.
 
That's the typical mentality I find with most ranchers. They have been raised with the belief that the land was meant for them and to be use for the purpose of profit. I see compitition between ATV's and cattle, the ATV's destroy vegatation and cattle need that to eat and what they don't eat they tromp down. Wildlife I see haven't even been mentioned by either party so they aren't a consideration in the fight. Just the fact that they area is quite, was mentioned by the rancher.. I asumed without ATV's.
 
Jensen, who lives in Crawford, owns a grazing allotment in the Bureau of Land Management-administered Roubideau Canyon

He doesn't own anything. He leases the right to graze animals. That is a privledge. It can, and should, be taken away from him.


Grazing, Jensen said, takes a toll on the canyon for a while, but in the long term, it’s much healthier for the ecosystem than the damage careless off-road vehicles often do to the land.

Great, we now manage public lands by which destroys the environment slowest? Great, Meth is far better than Heroin....
 
My feelings nearly mirror what the nikster wrote. While it is commendable that he wants to protect the canyon, he seems to believe that he should have more say in the matter than other stakeholders.

Heck, he doesn't even want hikers there. It sounds to me like he's afraid people will see what the cattle are doing and demand a change in management:

Jensen said he fears the all-terrain-vehicle driving and boot-clad hiking masses and maybe even oil, gas and other mineral development could threaten his ranching operation in Roubideau Canyon, where grazing allotments date to the 19th century.

NHY, the rancher owns a private land inholding within the BLM portion of the canyon. As JC said, he also leases a grazing allotment. Owning is typically how the ranchers perceive their grazing allotment rights.

BHR, there are two ranchers mentioned in the article. The syntax is correct.

Great, we now manage public lands by which destroys the environment slowest? Great, Meth is far better than Heroin....

JC, admitting he has a problem is the first step...;)
 
I say designate it wilderness. As soon as you draw a line around it and call it "Wilderness" people flock to it. Fill it up with hippie backpackers and see if he is happy.
 
He doesn't own anything. He leases the right to graze animals.
he also leases a grazing allotment. Owning is typically how the ranchers perceive their grazing allotment rights.
Wrong. Allotments are not leased. Also, there is a level of ownership otherwise the permittee would not be able to use it for colateral on a loan or to buy/sell it...

My biggest question is, what sort of protections will the conservation area give the canyon versus a WSA (which I am against, but that's a different topic)? I would also have to see the details of the travel plan that is being proposed as they were not provided in the article. I do know that the Wasatch-Cache NF closed a bunch of roads, but still allow permittee motorized access into the are. However, those allowances are VERY specific. For example, they can use these roads to get equipment or materials into an area for maintenance of range improvement projects, but they can't just drive back there to check on livestock or go deer hunting. If the plan for the canyon in article was similar to that I would no problem with it.
 
"Wildlife I see haven't even been mentioned by either party so they aren't a consideration in the fight."

Don't worry SS. After the huggers get the motorized recreation, cattle, oil gas and other extractive resources out of the area, they'll have plenty of time on their hands to shut down the trapping and hunting of wildlife there as well.
 
BHR said, "After the huggers get the motorized recreation, cattle, oil gas and other extractive resources out of the area, they'll have plenty of time on their hands to shut down the trapping and hunting of wildlife there as well."

Can you provide any proof of that happening anywhere? I wont wait for your reply as the answer is NO.
 
Buzz,

There's been a real push to ban trapping around here of late. Groups claiming to be for hunting, but opposed to trapping. Number of editorials in the Missoulian in the last month alone. Sorry no links to them or I would let you read a few. I think the anti-trapping effort has a lot to do with the pending mountain states delisting of wolves........huggers are just trying to reduce some of our possible management options. The future of trapping on public land is way more in danger than the future of public land grazing, no question.

Gotta admit, in this article, the ranchers are only being used as a tool by the huggers.
 
BHR,

I want you to show where tree huggers have closed roads to motorized access which ultimately led to loss of trapping/hunting rights in those areas.

You cant provide proof because it doesnt exist.

Read your post, you said, "After the huggers get the motorized recreation, cattle, oil gas and other extractive resources out of the area, they'll have plenty of time on their hands to shut down the trapping and hunting of wildlife there as well."

What proof do you base this on? The conclusion you jumped to was that once motorized recreation was banned or a drilling permit denied...hunting and trapping would surely follow. I've never seen ANY such proof of that happening. How many wilderness areas are off limits to trapping and hunting in MT, WY, ID, AK?

Just curious.
 
Buzz,

How many states in the West have already banned the use of leg hold traps? How many more years before Montana goes that way? Never said that closing roads will lead to loss of trapping/hunting rights. My point is, be careful who you get in bed with......they may be targeting you next. Do you agree that the ranchers in the article are being used as tools, or are you going to duck the question again?
 
My point is, be careful who you get in bed with......they may be targeting you next

LOL... He's been told this for years and still buy's into the idea "they" are only trying to help.... :D
 
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