Fine Firearms

[shrapnel]

I have always loved guns since I was a kid. I can't ever remember thinking of a gun as a tool. Today it seems that the trend is plastic stocks and stainless steel. That stuff leaves me cold.
'
Here is an article in the latest edition of "Shooting Sportsman" that Steven Dodd Hughes wrote on a George Daw shotgun that I bought just a couple years ago. It is an exquisitely made double barrel shotgun that was very innovative at the time it was made. They didn't make many, but the ones they did make are exceptional quality...

 

[MNElkNut]

Shrapnel,
I will start out by saying that I have a fondness for firearms as well that goes beyond them being a tool. But old firearms just don't trip my trigger (yes, pun intended!). I would be curious to understand some of why they hold such a place in your heart. I haven't got a lot of experience with old firearms, but the ones i have dealt with, well, seem old and outdated, clunky and heavy.

For example, my dad grew up with the Winchester 97. I believe it was very highly thought of as a shotgun (nothing at all like the one mentioned above obviously). Of course he had sold all of his. So I found one and bought it for him for Christmas one year. He was thrilled! That next fall, he brought it out pheasant hunting. We had to drive back home so he could put that relic back and get his Beretta auto. He couldnt believe what a club it was!

So, how does an old shotgun like you have compare to a new, high end shotgun? I have no idea having never shot or even handled a truly high end gun of yesteryear.

So, could you help me understand what it is that makes you love the old classic guns?

Having said all that, one thing on my bucket list is to own a gun with a small bit of historical significance. Maybe it was in Custer's Last Stand or a famous civil war battle. I think that would be neat....but not necessarily for the "gun" part of it.

 

[sbhooper]

I have a friend in Tucson that collects very expensive, classic shotguns. He uses them to hunt with, though. He managed to get the rules changed, so that he could use his 8-gauge for turkeys.

To me, they are just old guns. I have never seen a gun as more than just something to shoot and to use to put meat in the freezer. It comes down to personal choice, but a museum of old guns is fun for me for about 15 minutes and then they start all looking the same. If the gun has some family attachment, then that is different.

 

[belly-deep]

Beautiful gun

 

[Eyeguy]

Old guns are a lot like old cars. Extremely beautiful but some don't perform well to todays standards. Many were sure ahead of their time. Great article!

 

[tarheel]

I look at them as pieces of art which embody the skills of the gunmakers, the ones doing all the hand work, engraving and fitting of every piece. These were men with skills rarely seen today, men who took pride in doing a good job in turning out a weapon which anyone would be proud of and was reflective of the owners station in life. Every man who worked on such weapons stamped his proof on it and it was final proofed by test firing it to assure that it was safe and met the standards set down by the government. Today they're probably much lighter on the whole, swing well and will last longer than the owners in most cases, but they are void of tradition, cranked out in great number, roll stamped, plasticized and just don't have any class. M2c.

 

[Dan O]

Shrapnel,
I will start out by saying that I have a fondness for firearms as well that goes beyond them being a tool. But old firearms just don't trip my trigger (yes, pun intended!). I would be curious to understand some of why they hold such a place in your heart. I haven't got a lot of experience with old firearms, but the ones i have dealt with, well, seem old and outdated, clunky and heavy.

For example, my dad grew up with the Winchester 97. I believe it was very highly thought of as a shotgun (nothing at all like the one mentioned above obviously). Of course he had sold all of his. So I found one and bought it for him for Christmas one year. He was thrilled! That next fall, he brought it out pheasant hunting. We had to drive back home so he could put that relic back and get his Beretta auto. He couldnt believe what a club it was!

So, how does an old shotgun like you have compare to a new, high end shotgun? I have no idea having never shot or even handled a truly high end gun of yesteryear.

So, could you help me understand what it is that makes you love the old classic guns?

Having said all that, one thing on my bucket list is to own a gun with a small bit of historical significance. Maybe it was in Custer's Last Stand or a famous civil war battle. I think that would be neat....but not necessarily for the "gun" part of it.

Old firearms are a part of history. Each has their own story of places they have been and shots that have been taken by their caretaker at the time. I believe old firearms and even current ones are never owned by anyone they are cared for by an individual for the next generation. To some they are a tool, to others they are a treasure of history, family and friends. They can be the center piece for special memory's, your first deer, pheasant or winning your first competition. The old model 97 in my gun safe brings back memory's of my first Duck with my Father. It was a hand me down from my Grandfather to my Father and eventually to me. Hopefully someday to my Daughter or Grand child. But for now I'm just the caretaker of a special old shotgun that would not mean squat to others but of special memory's to me. Hopefully this will give you an insight of how some feel about their firearms.
Dan

 

[shrapnel]

Old guns are a lot like old cars. Extremely beautiful but some don't perform well to todays standards. Many were sure ahead of their time. Great article!

I agree, I like cars for more than transportation, and yes a newer car is more comfortable, but few turn as many heads as this old 1965 Pontiac...

 

[shrapnel]

Shrapnel,


So, how does an old shotgun like you have compare to a new, high end shotgun? I have no idea having never shot or even handled a truly high end gun of yesteryear.

So, could you help me understand what it is that makes you love the old classic guns?

Having said all that, one thing on my bucket list is to own a gun with a small bit of historical significance. Maybe it was in Custer's Last Stand or a famous civil war battle. I think that would be neat....but not necessarily for the "gun" part of it.

I doubt there will be many collectors in the next few generations talking about the nice plastic stocked stainless steel, soulless guns they have. I love guns for the reasons that aren't apparent in gun manufacturing in the recent years.

Who can get excited for a Ruger American which is just a cheap pair of pliers in a tool box. Model 70's were made in the 30's, 40's and 50's by people who had pride in their work and furthermore, would probably use one of the guns they built in the field.

Today, it is just marketing, CNC machines and no eye to the lines, fit and function of a gun. There are many people making money in the outdoor/hunting business that don't know a bolt action rifle from a Subaru. They only understand marketing as they were taught as they get a MBA in some ivy league school and are so far from the products they sell, it might as well be baseballs.

I have lots of nice old guns and every one of them has killed or shot something. The next guy that gets it will be more enthusiastic about it than they will a Ruger American or some other equivalent junker that is being passed off as a gun in the sporting goods stores these days...

 

[belly-deep]

Shrap,

No doubt about it the collectors won't be after the S/S guns. I think the "golden age" of gun manufacturing has about come to an end.

That said, I love to carry and shoot the new creations. Accurate and lightweight!

 

[Southwind]

Yep, I'm a gun nut, I'm a certified rifle loonie and admitting it is not the first step to recovery. I embrace it!

I have always loved your stuff Shrapnel. Nice goat, my best buddy has both a 65 and 66. Always been one of my favs.

 

[mtmuley]

A fine firearm doesn't have to be wood and blued steel, nor made years ago. There are some great guns being made right now. It might be different to some, but stainless steel and synthetic stocks can create memories too. Some of my guns are tools, and some aren't. Being able to appreciate the difference is trhe hard part I guess. mtmuley

 

[Eyeguy]

good discussion so far. I like the "tool" analogy. My Benelli Super Vinci is synthetic....but it is different and cool to look at. Its easy to break down and to clean. To me it is a tool. I can have it strapped over my shoulder dragging it thru chest deep water....and sitting in the mud.....and it fires. EVERY. TIME. No questions asked. If a group of mallards or geese comes in you can bet I am dropping at least two on my end of the flock. No recoil, even with 3.5" super mags, makes it very easy to stay on target for second and third shots. It swings like a dream and comes up ready to shoot in a flash. Im not sure I could say the same if I were toting some old 15 pound relic through the swamps. For me it would be better displayed above my mantle. Just me tho.

 

[shrapnel]

A fine firearm doesn't have to be wood and blued steel, nor made years ago. There are some great guns being made right now. It might be different to some, but stainless steel and synthetic stocks can create memories too. Some of my guns are tools, and some aren't. Being able to appreciate the difference is trhe hard part I guess. mtmuley

 

[Tradewind]

I have a fondness for old A5 semi auto's. I spend abt as much on gunsmithing as I do on the guns but love to take them bird hunting

 

[kenton]

Very cool discussion. I think its important to remember that the extreme functionality of today's firearms wouldn't have been possible without the innovation of yesteryear's gunmakers. There are some truly awesome old guns that are unbelievably terrible to shoot compared to new guns, but that doesn't take anything away from them. Another cool thing is that some firearm technology hasn't changed in 150 years. The materials may be lighter and the manufacturing more efficient but a lot of designs are still basically the same.

My dad has over 100 firearms, some new, some old but everyone has a story. In addition to each gun having a story about where and when it was made, it also has a story about its owner. If i'm lucky enough to take over the collection some day, I couldn't even consider selling any of them ( including the standard issue rifle for every major country involved in WW2).

There is a gun that my dad bought solely to shoot a box of ammo he found hiding in the corner of a closet. That's right: found ammo, bought gun to match, shot ammo, put gun away. A story worth more than the gun itself.

There is the italian carcano that was seized by the nazis and re-bored for a larger shell but is considered dangerous because the gun can't handle the larger shell. My dad tied it to a tree and ran a long string from the trigger just to say he shot it. I can vividly imagine myself doing this same thing in a few decades. You can't buy a story like that.

The entire collection probably isn't worth a single top end shotgun and some guns truly are simply tools used for hunting, but some guns are much more valuable than that.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Three of these have drawn blood lately.

 

[kansasdad]

Three of these have drawn blood lately.

Was waiting for your 100,000 cents worth Ben.

I guess I fall in with the nostalgia crowd just a little more than strictly utilitarian......sorta like cats......family pet vs strict rodent control. ......but maybe my analogy breaks down as I see cats not a pets at all worthy of love like a good dog.

 

[shrapnel]

Three of these have drawn blood lately.

That is what I'm talking about...

 

[Ben Lamb]

Shrapnel,
I will start out by saying that I have a fondness for firearms as well that goes beyond them being a tool. But old firearms just don't trip my trigger (yes, pun intended!). I would be curious to understand some of why they hold such a place in your heart. I haven't got a lot of experience with old firearms, but the ones i have dealt with, well, seem old and outdated, clunky and heavy.

For example, my dad grew up with the Winchester 97. I believe it was very highly thought of as a shotgun (nothing at all like the one mentioned above obviously). Of course he had sold all of his. So I found one and bought it for him for Christmas one year. He was thrilled! That next fall, he brought it out pheasant hunting. We had to drive back home so he could put that relic back and get his Beretta auto. He couldnt believe what a club it was!

So, how does an old shotgun like you have compare to a new, high end shotgun? I have no idea having never shot or even handled a truly high end gun of yesteryear.

The shotguns stack up well. A good brotosh double will weigh about 6 1/2 pounds in 12 bore w/ 2.5 inch chambers. Depending on the proofs, these are great guns for upland hunting. I recently handled a William Evans made in the 1890's that took huns, sharpies & sage grouse on a trip. I wouldn't feel undergunned with that shotgun, even if it was only proofed at 7/8's ounce.

A modern citori weighs in at 7 pounds, 10 ounces. You can get into a nice british double for the same cost, and have a functional work of art that kills game just as dead as any modern gun, and oftem times, with a little more panache.