And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.

JDH

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Right, and when this bill passes it won't cause a negative impact to any of those businesses.
Interesting, I've got to admit then that I've been fed a line of bull from most sources then. But for me personally I can say that the local Safeway and Taco Johns won't be getting as much money from me because I know I won't be going out there as often with the transfer of LE tags and price increase. And I'm not saying that to be sarcastic. The first year I realized how points worked and I wanted to start going out West I hurriedly bought points in a few states. As I looked in the opportunity and quality of hunting in Wyoming I narrowed my points spending, realizing Wyoming provided what I was looking for. When this passes I will start looking other places.
 

SnowyMountaineer

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Interesting, I've got to admit then that I've been fed a line of bull from most sources then. But for me personally I can say that the local Safeway and Taco Johns won't be getting as much money from me because I know I won't be going out there as often with the transfer of LE tags and price increase. And I'm not saying that to be sarcastic. The first year I realized how points worked and I wanted to start going out West I hurriedly bought points in a few states. As I looked in the opportunity and quality of hunting in Wyoming I narrowed my points spending, realizing Wyoming provided what I was looking for. When this passes I will start looking other places.
I think it depends a lot on the context of the tag. Say you were putting in for elk in the Bighorns or Red Desert, but that tag now goes to me instead of you. I'm going to make 2-3 trips over the summer in addition to during the season...gas, food (grocery and/or fast), maybe blow out a tire, and depending on the unit a motel or VRBO. It's plausible that the financial benefit to those gas stations, stores, and economy in the surrounding towns would be a wash.
 

Lost Arra

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I think it depends a lot on the context of the tag. Say you were putting in for elk in the Bighorns or Red Desert, but that tag now goes to me instead of you. I'm going to make 2-3 trips over the summer in addition to during the season...gas, food (grocery and/or fast), maybe blow out a tire, and depending on the unit a motel or VRBO. It's plausible that the financial benefit to those gas stations, stores, and economy in the surrounding towns would be a wash.
At only $53 for a tag there are plenty of weekend resident hunters who may go one weekend if the weather is nice. I lived in Wyoming for 4 years and not every resident tag holder is as gung-ho as SnowyMountaineer or a non-resident who has dropped a few thousand to make the trip. Hell, Buzz himself says he eats some of his 30 big game tags on purpose. Increasing the price of resident tags to a level where it is an actual expense and not just a tank of gas would eliminate the resident fair weather hunters and give those tags to residents who are wanting to really hunt. I think more tags are kept from residents by other residents.


I love the comments from residents that say all they see are out of state trucks. The unit they are hunting has 900 resident tags and 100 non-residents. The residents are home in bed.
 

ElkFever2

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Finally caught up...

My takeaway is WY has the best NR value for me of any state. A big part of this is the option to hunt archery AND gun on the same tag, and be able to take multiple trips if I want. Raise prices 75% and it still has the best value. Probably 5 years from now I’ll gag at whatever the NR price is for antlered tags in the West and start phasing them out in favor of antlerless, birds, fishing, etc. I’ll still have fun.

It’s really too bad all the bad PR this proposal got. A ton of people saw “90/10” and assumed this would mean dramatically fewer tags for NR’s. Had to read several explanations to understand this was for LQ only and the balance mostly rolled over to general for elk, regional for deer, and leftover for lope.

I am in favor of the 90/10 as it was proposed, although I’m concerned some residents are thinking it’s really going to boost their chances to draw those tags. It won’t. Neither will a PP system. The only real cure is a bigger pie.
 

ElkFever2

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My first reaction to @BuzzH ’s stated desire to get leftover 2nd+ buck antelope tags is “maybe save some for others.” Well, I shot 3 antlered WT in my home state last year and can legally do so every year. I could shoot 120 spikes on top of that if I had the ambition. So, hunt away - maybe you’ll get your leftover buck antelope tag back in a year or two.
 

RobertD

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Testament to the site that this thread got so much engagement but never got locked. I just read this thing front to back and enjoyed a lot of people's perspectives.

I've got low points for deer and antelope in Wyoming, NR. Staying in. Admittedly, I'm not picky about units, especially deer. Buying preference points without having to buy a license and knowing dudes have success in general units, it's an easy choice to me.

Still, respect for a lot of the various perspectives in the thread. Maybe a good time to reevaluate preference point systems.
 

HONEYBADGER

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No carve outs for outfitters killed the bill. Wealthy out of state ranch owners run Wyoming, who controls hunting on those ranches? Guides and outfitters. Who hunts with guides and outfitters primarily? Non-resident s. Once they figure out outfitters/wealthy ranch owners have to get their palms greased they will come up with something that passes....until then nothing will. I suspect they will end up with some special set aside tags that are crazy pricey but would allow wealthy NRs to hunt every year, or transferable landowner tags... something along those lines. Until then it's much ado about nothing.
 

Duck-Slayer

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great state of Idaho....
No carve outs for outfitters killed the bill. Wealthy out of state ranch owners run Wyoming, who controls hunting on those ranches? Guides and outfitters. Who hunts with guides and outfitters primarily? Non-resident s. Once they figure out outfitters/wealthy ranch owners have to get their palms greased they will come up with something that passes....until then nothing will. I suspect they will end up with some special set aside tags that are crazy pricey but would allow wealthy NRs to hunt every year, or transferable landowner tags... something along those lines. Until then it's much ado about nothing.
Unfortunately this is probably true!
Matt
 

Lost Arra

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No carve outs for outfitters killed the bill. Wealthy out of state ranch owners run Wyoming, who controls hunting on those ranches? Guides and outfitters. Who hunts with guides and outfitters primarily? Non-resident s. Once they figure out outfitters/wealthy ranch owners have to get their palms greased they will come up with something that passes....until then nothing will. I suspect they will end up with some special set aside tags that are crazy pricey but would allow wealthy NRs to hunt every year, or transferable landowner tags... something along those lines. Until then it's much ado about nothing.
I'm curious why the resident ranchers don't have more influence rather than "out of state ranch owners". Is the Jackson Hole and Kanye West crowd running the show?
 

Wind Gypsy

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Get a po box make it your address. Live where you want. A friend does this for real who is retired. Don't agree but what he does.

People do it but they are playing with fire.

My last year of college in ND I rented a room from a friend. When I graduated and took a job with a nationwide contractor that relocated me across the country (6 moves in the first 2 years) I continued to use his house as my permanent residence as I had nowhere else to do so. My bed, furniture, and bunch of belongings stayed there. I was paying ND state income taxes on earnings made in no-tax states like TX. My hunting/fishing licenses in all other states were as a non-resident.

At one point a game warden started staking out my buddies house, assuming i was gaming the system by purchasing Resident licenses. They were going to file charges on me and it took a lot of reassurance from another game warden who happened to be a hunting buddy that I wasn't gaming the system.
 

ImBillT

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Testament to the site that this thread got so much engagement but never got locked. I just read this thing front to back and enjoyed a lot of people's perspectives.

I've got low points for deer and antelope in Wyoming, NR. Staying in. Admittedly, I'm not picky about units, especially deer. Buying preference points without having to buy a license and knowing dudes have success in general units, it's an easy choice to me.

Still, respect for a lot of the various perspectives in the thread. Maybe a good time to reevaluate preference point systems.

A year ago, heated threads were usually locked within a few days, sometimes within a few hours. I don’t know what to attribute the change to, but I’m glad they aren’t getting locked so quickly.
 

Wyocat

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No carve outs for outfitters killed the bill. Wealthy out of state ranch owners run Wyoming, who controls hunting on those ranches? Guides and outfitters. Who hunts with guides and outfitters primarily? Non-resident s. Once they figure out outfitters/wealthy ranch owners have to get their palms greased they will come up with something that passes....until then nothing will. I suspect they will end up with some special set aside tags that are crazy pricey but would allow wealthy NRs to hunt every year, or transferable landowner tags... something along those lines. Until then it's much ado about nothing.
Exactly right. Most of the really good land is controlled by private ranches.
Just figure 15%-20% of what a 5 day guided hunt cost per person. That’s a tip for a guide. Multiply that by 12-16 weeks, and it adds up quick!
 

Wyocat

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I'm curious why the resident ranchers don't have more influence rather than "out of state ranch owners". Is the Jackson Hole and Kanye West crowd running the show?
Most of the local ranches are homesteads and are 3rd, 4th generation. Over the years, kids grew less interested in carrying on the ranch, and the little ranches get bought up by big money. They pay over listing and their offers are usually accepted. They buy the neighbors, then the next one and so on. Just keep taking down fences.

Most of the places were initially acquired for free, on the cheap, or in land grants originally. The only investment is blood, sweat and tears. Most of the small ranches struggle to get by and go up and down in good years and bad.
If someone approached you and said they will give you 4.5 million dollars for your ranch, you take it and retire.

The new owners bulldoze the buildings, cut down the fences, and restore it to prairie. The property value goes way down with no buildings or improvements. You then have it re-accessed and a new tax value is applied.
Then they create a land preservation trust, which means it can never be parceled, developed or improved on, and get a huge tax break from the state. They still get to use it, hunt on it and graze their cattle on it, they just can’t build anything. It stays in the family until no inheritors remain, and then it would go back to the State. As long as there is a surviving heir, it will always be in that owners family in perpetuity.

With huge tax credits, from “donating their land” to the trust, they offset their cowboys salaries, operation expenses etc. They buy land next to national forest, BLM, state land, etc, and control access and create choke points, or get grazing permits/leases and let the cows tromp all over the timber and high country all summer on BLM land.
Then they move the cows down in the fall.

It forces the elk down onto the ranches and foothills because it’s dry and grazed down in the actual public areas. The elk have been competing with cattle for most of the summer up in the hills.

That’s where the outfitters come in. They guide NRs on these huge ranches for elk. I have seen herds of 100s across a valley standing on private land. The forest I’m standing in is dry and chewed down, and full of cow shit, instead of elk droppings.

I may have said too much already. I work on one of those very same ranches. I have witnessed this land growth phenomenon first hand. The place I live has grown considerably, since I arrived six years ago.

Most of these ranches aren’t celebrity owned. More like individual land barons that operate under corporate LLC type structures, but usually just one big owner behind each of these big mega ranches.

Small ranches don’t have the capitol, liquid expenses or attorneys to pull off this type of acquisition. It’s a losing game for the original and small ranch families.
 

Wyocat

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I forgot to mention the shed hunting. They collect and sell elk sheds for a pretty penny. Teams go out in side by sides and collect them in the spring. $4-$14 a pound depending on color quality and freshness.
 

Dougfirtree

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Just curious, do any NR get personal messages back when they write Wyoming legislators like I do?
I felt compelled to update. Today I got an email reply from Wendy Schuler, updating me on the bill and its transfer to the taskforce. She thanked me for my comment, but did not take a stance.
 
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