WY NR hunters bend over...

[brymoore]

This country is going to go the same way as Europe, where only the rich guys can hunt.

There's a lot of truth in this statement but I don't think changing NR allocations is making states Europe.

The first responsibility of state F&G departments and legislature is to look out for the interests of it's constituents, residents of the state. If I lived in WY, I'd be howling mad at the allocation percentages, especially for the trophy species.

I'd argue, from a financial standpoint, that WY has built it's financial house on sand. It's predicated on the income received from the PP system and NR license sales. The system has worked so far but change the parameters in either, and the house starts to collapse.

If WY moves forward with this plan, someone better come up with alternative forms of revenue to offset the NR loss. Raising residents fees won't cover the gap; neither will an SFW system. From my quick calculation, WY will loose $3 million in elk tag sales, not counting the PPs potentially lost. Multiply this over the species, and WY is loosing $10 million plus on the proposal.

This thread should be archived and reviewed with each time someone argues for states to start a PP system

 

[roadhunter]

WY has already been one of the top states for the European model even before this........just not as well publicized. They've had the 2nd most auction tags for years. Nobody is even close to catching them in that category.

Interesting. What would your top 5 states for the "European" model be?

 

[Zim]

Interesting. What would your top 5 states for the "European" model be?

#1 in a runaway...........Utah
#2 you know that
#3-5 anywhere SFW is stirring a pot

 

[roadhunter]

#1 in a runaway...........Utah
#2 you know that
#3-5 anywhere SFW is stirring a pot

So I am to assume you thin Wyoming is the #2 state for the "European" model?
Interesting. What exactly makes you think that? How many more auction tags do they issue compared to CO, MT, ID, etc..?

I'd put Colorado as #2. The reason being the transferable landowner tags which account for a pretty big chunk of all tags issued. This basically allows thousands of people to "buy" a tag for a great area without waiting to be drawn.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Let's not forget everyone's favorite secessionist step-child: Texas.

 

[npaden]

Yeah, I would have to say Texas pretty much has the European model wrapped up. Of course the biggest reason for that is that 99% or something like that of the huntable land is privately owned.

Another state with some European model leaning is New Mexico. Plenty of transferable land owner tags there, plus 10% of the tags going to the outfitter welfare system and only 6% to nonguided nonresidents.

 

[Oak]

I would rank them:

1 - Texas
2 - Utah
3 - New Mexico
4 - Colorado
5 - Wyoming

Although I typically don't count Texas for anything.

 

[Zim]

Putting Texas in there is kind of comparing apples to oranges. I actually hunted there 4 years as a resident. However, they don't offer me anything special to want to even go there if I could. Whitetail is about it, and I can hunt bigger ones in many other states closer.

Similar is stacking the LO tag states. To better clarify my initial intent I should specify it is the model by which states manage publicly owned lands.

 

[roadhunter]

Yeah, I would have to say Texas pretty much has the European model wrapped up. Of course the biggest reason for that is that 99% or something like that of the huntable land is privately owned.

Another state with some European model leaning is New Mexico. Plenty of transferable land owner tags there, plus 10% of the tags going to the outfitter welfare system and only 6% to nonguided nonresidents.

I agree on Texas although it is not necessarily for the same reasons as other mountain states. Seems like it is more about the private landowners exploiting the wildlife versus the state making changes to rules and regulations on tags like in other states. It still accomplishes the same thing by allowing more hunting privileges to the wealthy but is gone about in a different way.

Not sure I follow the folks who think Wyoming is one of the worst. The way I see it they do auction a few tags off every year so there are small number of people who avoid the draw and are able to buy a great tag but I assume we are dealing with less than 100 auction tags. And when compared to other states I doubt there is much of a difference in the number of auction tags sold, and if you compare the income generated form those tags I doubt Wyoming is that high up as states like Montana and Arizona make big money on sheep and elk tags.. Aside from the auction tags there is not a way to avoid the draw and jump in front of others for tags that I am aware of. Yes they have the special draw but it is still a draw done in order of preference points.

Colorado on the other hand allow thousands of people to bypass the draw and purchase transferable landowner tags for in some cases thousands of dollars. Colorado allows tens of thousands of people to avoid the draw and "buy" tags and Wyoming allows less than 100 to "buy" tags. Not even comparable IMO.

Seems like New Mexico should be on that list as well. Really any state with transferable landowner tags could be considered more of a European type hunting state IMO.

 

[noharleyyet]

Texas Preference Point system..better odds than AZ



Texas Model



Rocky MT Time Zone Model;

 

[roadhunter]

That last one is a aTm model.

 

[dmandoes]

i've been burning pts and dumping states as fast as i can. i also believe most states have devalued my pts including az. az devalued my pts when they created the 20% bonus pool. i have to believe the $1500 i spend on applying for tags should be spent on buying tags. i have to believe the apply apply apply strategy should be don't do it don't do it don't do it. i have to believe landowner tags are a good thing and we need more of them. i have to believe turning public land over to the states to sell is a good thing. i have to believe all tags should be sold at market value. i'm willing to pay more than most resident. the north american model of wildlife is doomed to fail because welfare resident hunters don't want to pay up. in my best interest as a nonresident, i should join SFW.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Looks like they want more tags for residents and just outta state Don Peons in WY. After cashing in what I've got- Ill throw in the towel for WY. Put it in and break it off - Thanks. Just because everybody else is doing it , doesn't make it right. Looks like I bailed on sheep at the right time and saved $1000

 

[schmalts]

You are correct. Where I differ is that I do not see it as a slap in the face but rather a change to the system to attempt to fix something that is perceived to be broken.

Help me get this straight. What is Broken? And if you mean the underfunded F&G how will this fix anything?
Where do you suppose the F&G money will come from when there would be a mass exit of those who spend up to hundreds of dollars every year in your state without setting foot in it? Keep in mind these people do not usually even hunt there and the are funding the F&G. Even if you raised tags prices for residents to make up for after they stab the NR in the back you still will lose a ton of cash on those buying points.

 

[boof]

So from the standpoint of someone who is about to jump in the points game, this all looks pretty bleak. I haven't been following other state's hunting regulations for very long, but doesn't this kind of thing happen quite often? I am talking about a big proposal that is eventually shot down and everyone got worked up over nothing. I'm not saying that is the case here, but in South Dakota we see proposed hunting things that are denied quite often.

Won't outfitters raise a big enough stink over this to stop something?

I'm about to start buying points this year for the first time, should I still plan on getting WY?

 

[schmalts]

So from the standpoint of someone who is about to jump in the points game, this all looks pretty bleak. I haven't been following other state's hunting regulations for very long, but doesn't this kind of thing happen quite often? I am talking about a big proposal that is eventually shot down and everyone got worked up over nothing. I'm not saying that is the case here, but in South Dakota we see proposed hunting things that are denied quite often.

Won't outfitters raise a big enough stink over this to stop something?

I'm about to start buying points this year for the first time, should I still plan on getting WY?

It depends on what you want to hunt and what quality of area. If this plan goes through I feel it is a waste of money on Moose and Sheep unless you like real thin odds and are a young man.

 

[boof]

It depends on what you want to hunt and what quality of area. If this plan goes through I feel it is a waste of money on Moose and Sheep unless you like real thin odds and are a young man.

I should have been more clear, I'm only interested in antelope, elk and deer.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Sounds like the bill is dead.

Good work folks. Heard that WYOGA put some heat on folks too. Good for them.

 

[Triple BB]

The bill is dead for this year. The sponsors are already saying a revised version will be back next session. I think it'll gain some momentum next year and it won't take as many votes to get something passed. Also, it seems like a lot of non rezi's don't have a clue about Wyoming politics as they keep placing blame on the WY G&F. This bill has nothing to do with the G&F and they have no legal authority to publicly lobby for or against it. I definitely think the sheep & moose allocations need revised and it should've been done long ago. Guess we'll see what happens in 365...

 

[mixedbag]

I sure hope wy. stops playing games with the NR.Last year the big license increase failed now this.You may not want to start scaring your customers away.I'm going to burn my points for deer and antelope this year or next.Seems like only Colorado wants NR anymore.
New Mexico messed us up,Montana priced us out,Cant draw a decent hunt in Id,Oregon or Washington for 10 years(talking elk).Seems to me the should be a little more fair with the guys who pay a huge percentage of their budgets.I can see maybe 10% for moose,sheep to help residents draw tags.As far as elk,deer,antelope no way!!!!You guys can go buy tags otc so if residents want trophy units then it should be split 50/50 since you already can get a general tag.We put in for a special unit its draw or get nothing.Elk tags don't make 2nd round in any area you can access.I'm glad I'm almost getting too old for those trips now anyway.This money racket is getting out of hand