WY GEN Elk Tag is Virtually a Once in a Lifetime Tag---Change my Mind

[BuzzH]

While I agree that the trend is definite and obvious, it's also worth noting that in that timespan CO changed from requiring everyone to from the cash for an app to only charging after you drew... so a giant external factor affecting those numbers.

Bingo, and requiring a hunting license to apply.

The thing is, if you're plunking down cash for a hunting license, it makes sense to plunk down pocket change to pick up points for species you "may" have interest in hunting some time down the road.

In the case of states that allow point averaging, it may mean gaining financially from folks looking to party apply with you. I had an offer last year to party with someone in Utah with my max general deer points. I would have had a tag and enough cash to do the hunt if I would have taken the offer. That would far and away exceed the small amount I've paid to gain those points.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

While I agree that the trend is definite and obvious, it's also worth noting that in that timespan CO changed from requiring everyone to from the cash for an app to only charging after you drew... so a giant external factor affecting those numbers.

WY Reg draw NR, Random

2015 = 13073
2021 = 21603

Colorado did explode because of that fact, but WY didn't exactly stay flat lol... at the very least with 0 change to the system CO would have likely kept pace with WY.

 

[Brn2hnt]

WY Reg draw NR, Random

2015 = 13073
2021 = 21603

Colorado did explode because of that fact, but WY didn't exactly stay flat lol... at the very least with 0 change to the system CO would have likely kept pace with WY.

That's what I was trying to say. Every state (that I have dug into anyways) exploded, but CO most of all in that timeframe.

Will be interesting to see how current market conditions the next 2+ years affect all this.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Will be interesting to see how current market conditions the next 2+ years affect all this.

This is a key facet. I think we witnessed a perfect storm of things to include a robust economy over a full decade, relatively cheap gas prices, drastically increased exposure to western hunting. All of this combined to skyrocket what was an already increasing endeavor.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

This is a key facet. I think we witnessed a perfect storm of things to include a robust economy over a full decade, relatively cheap gas prices, drastically increased exposure to western hunting. All of this combined to skyrocket what was an already increasing endeavor.

I think the problem is "hunting" has become personality trait for so many people that I'm curious how elastic the demand really is...

You think the dude whose truck is slathered in mtnHops stickers is going to take up another hobby in the downturn.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I think the problem is "hunting" has become personality trait for so many people that I'm curious how elastic the demand really is...

You think the dude whose truck is slathered in mtnHops stickers is going to take up another hobby in the downturn.

For the hardcore bruh, I agree. I do wonder about the masses though. I mean, look at how easy antelope tags were to get 10 years ago.

If the availability of these decreases, I do think we’ll witness some level of demand destruction when the notion of hunting out west every year becomes increasingly difficult.

 

[RobertD]

I think the problem is "hunting" has become personality trait for so many people that I'm curious how elastic the demand really is...

You think the dude whose truck is slathered in mtnHops stickers is going to take up another hobby in the downturn.

He will when he can't post multiple dead animals on Instagram each year. And I 100% believe that will be the case for a lot of people.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

For the hardcore bruh, I agree. I do wonder about the masses though. I mean, look at how easy antelope tags were to get 10 years ago.

If the availability of these decreases, I do think we’ll witness some level of demand destruction when the notion of hunting out west every year becomes increasingly difficult.

NR Elk hunting perhaps.

But Resident hunting in the west, which has exploded?

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

He will when he can't post multiple dead animals on Instagram each year. And I 100% believe that will be the case for a lot of people.

Dude all I can say is thank god for gifs and witty ripostes... for else point creep would not bode well for my reaction score.

 

[RobertD]

I don't believe most people actually like what they like. They like what other people say they should like, or more accurately, what other people they admire like.

If the opportunity becomes rare enough that it can't be modeled (and thus imitated) it'll lose out to something that can.

 

[Kearnsie14]

I think the problem is "hunting" has become personality trait for so many people that I'm curious how elastic the demand really is...

You think the dude whose truck is slathered in mtnHops stickers is going to take up another hobby in the downturn.

Not necessarily take up another hobby. More likely get discouraged and hunt somewhere else where they perceive more opportunity.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I don't believe most people actually like what they like. They like what other people say they should like, or more accurately, what other people they admire like.

If the opportunity becomes rare enough that it can't be modeled (and thus imitated) it'll lose out to something that can.

sagacious

 

[Deleted member 20812]

NR Elk hunting perhaps.

But Resident hunting in the west, which has exploded?

Possibly. I think there are a number of factors to consider there, the main one being how sustainable WFH is in 5-10 years.

 

[RobertD]

sagacious

Thank you, credit to my boy René Girard, keeping my hunting hopes alive

 

[TOGIE]

how many mtops bros are still single and not yet married to that sorority chick that wants to blow all of their disposable income in Banff and Belize. those dudes will be quickly relegated to resident tags for one weekend of hunting a year.

party on

 

[huntin24/7]

I think there will eventually be somewhat less participation as tags get to be more difficult to obtain, success becomes more difficult with generally more poorly managed herds in much of the west, etc. I think it’s inevitable that MT, CO, and other western states will eventually have to go to a draw system for most species and units for antlered at least as these states populations continue to grow and there is more competition on public land.

 

[PrairieHunter]

It's an interesting perspective from the state level. Do they need to subsidize NR hunting with cheap tags all in an effort to generate tourism $, or can more tourism $ be had by simply marketing to non hunters.

This was discussed on Fox Denver this week https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...to-attract-more-visitors-to-colorful-colorado.

This part was interesting.
California, for example, spends about $195 million on tourism campaigns compared to Colorado’s $20 million — roughly 10 times more.

“And Arizona is three times more, Wyoming is more,” Wolfe said.

As states realize they are losing revenue by subsidizing NR hunters with under market value tags they will figure out ways to generate more revenue with those tags, and spend tourism $ elsewhere where they can get a better return.

NR hunters have had it good for quite some time. and even states like Kansas charging $600 to hunt a whitetail are still selling out so we could easily see $2,500 elk tags, $1,500 deer tags, $1,000 antelope tags, etc sold by the states. There are plenty of people with $ who will pay more to get more tags. Right now middle men and landowners are taking advantage of the system buying cheap landowner/RFW/etc tags and then reselling them for a profit.

If you really want a scary outcome for the average NR hunter states like Wyoming could just do away with NR tags and make resident tags transferable. That would have a lot of support as the R's get the last 10% of tags, and get to make $ selling them. Outfitters would be fine as that means their NR hunters could just buy tags, no more draw. But for the guy who can't afford a $2,500 general elk tag, $5 gas to drive out, etc he would be SOL.

 

[PrairieHunter]

I think there will eventually be somewhat less participation as tags get to be more difficult to obtain, success becomes more difficult with generally more poorly managed herds in much of the west, etc.

Yep, pretty much won't even hunt in the areas I used to hunt 10-12 years ago.

Deer hunting around Chardon on public land used to be a ton of fun. It continually got worse to the point I would not go hunt there if you gave me a tag. Hunted there 2 years ago with some really good hunters covering thousands of acres of good country and didn't' even see a buck on public land, and to top it off a guy took a shot at my friend with a muzzlelaoder then pretended he saw a coyote. Nope not worth it. Same on the antelope around Crawford. I used to drive up from Oklahoma to hunt them as they were everywhere on the walk in land. Last time I was there when deer hunting I did not see an antelope on that place.

The quality of the hunt in some areas is simply not worth it anymore.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

It's an interesting perspective from the state level. Do they need to subsidize NR hunting with cheap tags all in an effort to generate tourism $, or can more tourism $ be had by simply marketing to non hunters.

This was discussed on Fox Denver this week https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...to-attract-more-visitors-to-colorful-colorado.

This part was interesting.
California, for example, spends about $195 million on tourism campaigns compared to Colorado’s $20 million — roughly 10 times more.

“And Arizona is three times more, Wyoming is more,” Wolfe said.

As states realize they are losing revenue by subsidizing NR hunters with under market value tags they will figure out ways to generate more revenue with those tags, and spend tourism $ elsewhere where they can get a better return.

NR hunters have had it good for quite some time. and even states like Kansas charging $600 to hunt a whitetail are still selling out so we could easily see $2,500 elk tags, $1,500 deer tags, $1,000 antelope tags, etc sold by the states. There are plenty of people with $ who will pay more to get more tags. Right now middle men and landowners are taking advantage of the system buying cheap landowner/RFW/etc tags and then reselling them for a profit.

If you really want a scary outcome for the average NR hunter states like Wyoming could just do away with NR tags and make resident tags transferable. That would have a lot of support as the R's get the last 10% of tags, and get to make $ selling them. Outfitters would be fine as that means their NR hunters could just buy tags, no more draw. But for the guy who can't afford a $2,500 general elk tag, $5 gas to drive out, etc he would be SOL.

Gov. Jared Polis says enough is enough on tourism marketing

Hotel guests in Colorado will no longer see 100% of the funds they pay into county lodging taxes used for marketing efforts telling them to return, thanks to a bill signed into law Thursday, March...

www.summitdaily.com

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

As states realize they are losing revenue by subsidizing NR hunters with under market value tags they will figure out ways to generate more revenue with those tags, and spend tourism $ elsewhere where they can get a better return.

I don't understand what you're saying here?