WY GEN Elk Tag is Virtually a Once in a Lifetime Tag---Change my Mind

wllm

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Really?

You think Wyoming is getting anywhere close to market value on their big-game tags?

$34 for a doe pronghorn, for example.

$692 for an elk tag?

$288 for a cow tag?

$326 for a pronghorn buck?

We could sell out tags charging double.
"As states realize they are losing revenue by subsidizing NR hunters with under market value tags they will figure out ways to generate more revenue with those tags"

As states realize they aren't maximizing profits and are selling tags at below market value they will adjust prices.

Is this what the OP meant? Subsidize tripped me up as that implies something different, there is no subsidy in the system.

"and spend tourism $ elsewhere where they can get a better return".

I have no idea what that means. WY isn't spending any money on NR elk tags? It's not like the state buys elk tags from the federal government and then resells them at a loss and then go forward they would stop doing that and instead invest the money in ski areas.

So yeah it's unclear, I'm not saying he's wrong I just wasn't sure of the premise.
 

mulecreek

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Really?

You think Wyoming is getting anywhere close to market value on their big-game tags?

$34 for a doe pronghorn, for example.

$692 for an elk tag?

$288 for a cow tag?

$326 for a pronghorn buck?

We could sell out tags charging double.
Now that the NR elk cap is most likely a thing of the past, get rid of the reduced price cow/calf/doe/fawn and make them full priced. Require PP's be used regardless of choice #. This would help in many aspects.
 

wllm

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Really?

You think Wyoming is getting anywhere close to market value on their big-game tags?

$34 for a doe pronghorn, for example.

$692 for an elk tag?

$288 for a cow tag?

$326 for a pronghorn buck?

We could sell out tags charging double.

In 2022 the cost for a gen elk tag for someone using preference points
Gen elk Tag $692 + 5 points ($52)= $952
 

PrairieHunter

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I don't understand what you're saying here?
Many NR tags are priced well below market value. That is states subsidizing the NR hunter. That costs the state revenue.
'
Wyoming General elk tags would sell out if they were $2,500 for example. So every NR hunter who gets a gen elk tag for $700 is actually taking $1,800 away from the states finances.

As far as tourism spending states can likely get a better return spending those $ on non hunting tourist so there is no reason to spend $ selling Wyoming as a hunting destination if the tags will sell out regardless. That's not spending marketing $ wisely.

Colorado is different with the OTC tags, which is why they can make $ by paying Randy to promote hunting in Colorado on his show. He does a video and they get a return on the investment in the form of tags sold, more hunters at motels, etc...

Wyoming has no need to pay anyone to promote hunting if the tags sell out regardless. And there is really no reason to sell tags for significantly less than market value, that's subsidizing the NR hunter.

Wyoming is better off marketing to skiers, boaters, hikers, etc as they will get a better return on their marketing $ focusing on those groups. The only real reason to market hunting opportunities is if the resource is underutilized (very rare) or you have unlimited OTC tags. Kansas is in the same boat, even spending $1,000 on promoting deer hunting in the state is wasted as the tags will sell out regardless. They should raise prices even more until there are a few leftovers from the draw which will sell out before the season starts.
 

PrairieHunter

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I don't believe most people actually like what they like. They like what other people say they should like, or more accurately, what other people they admire like.

If the opportunity becomes rare enough that it can't be modeled (and thus imitated) it'll lose out to something that can.
I agree with the first part, the second is a bit more challenging.

You see this with teenage girls. They look up to "influencers" who spend time getting all dolled up for pics. The kids will still try to act, dress, etc like them even if it's not close. Wear the brand of clothes they wear, do their style the same way, copy the dance moves, etc... But the teenagers never look the same as they have real teeth, tits, hair, eyelashes, etc... and the influencer has so many advantages the look is hard to duplicate.

So hunters are really no different. They see the TV hunters, buy the same clothes the TV hunter "influencer" wears, hunt the same animals, buy the same brand gun, get the same tags, hunt private, guided hunts, etc..

Maybe hunters will quit when they can't replicate the TV/Social media hunters. Or maybe they will be like teenage girls and just keep trying no matter if they ever achieve the look.
 

BuzzH

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"As states realize they are losing revenue by subsidizing NR hunters with under market value tags they will figure out ways to generate more revenue with those tags"

As states realize they aren't maximizing profits and are selling tags at below market value they will adjust prices.

Is this what the OP meant? Subsidize tripped me up as that implies something different, there is no subsidy in the system.

"and spend tourism $ elsewhere where they can get a better return".

I have no idea what that means. WY isn't spending any money on NR elk tags? It's not like the state buys elk tags from the federal government and then resells them at a loss and then go forward they would stop doing that and instead invest the money in ski areas.

So yeah it's unclear.
Maybe not subsidizing but most certainly under-valuing our tags.

Its absolutely ridiculous to charge only $34 for a doe pronghorn. People wonder why demand is through the roof when you can buy a doe pronghorn tag for the cost of going to see a chitty movie.
 

TOGIE

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Maybe not subsidizing but most certainly under-valuing our tags.

Its absolutely ridiculous to charge only $34 for a doe pronghorn. People wonder why demand is through the roof when you can buy a doe pronghorn tag for the cost of going to see a chitty movie.

holy eff is that how much the theaters cost now??

jeebus.

i mean, we have full priced doe deer tags and people spend points on em, Rs and NRs alike.

but in some units i suspect that's why we are able to have leftover doe tags. for R's and NR's alike.
 

ShootsManyBullets

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Maybe not subsidizing but most certainly under-valuing our tags.

Its absolutely ridiculous to charge only $34 for a doe pronghorn. People wonder why demand is through the roof when you can buy a doe pronghorn tag for the cost of going to see a chitty movie.
Agreed that $49 out the door is stupid low for a NR tag doe/fawn antelope tag. The higher priced antelope tags were $629 last year or maybe more in 22 - Etiher way, they're now above what I'm willing to pay for antelope every year. I know someone else will, but most of my buddies drew the line on that one.

Montana doesn't think much or their doe tags either but they're really proud of their buck tags. Great deal if you're retired and want to hunt for a month. Otherwise overpriced to most of us.

I don't blame the states for raising prices to see what they can get, but use the money to make the resource better. I know in my circle of friends who all do pretty well we're all just hunting and shooting less as everything costs more - not just the tags and fuel.
 

wllm

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Maybe not subsidizing but most certainly under-valuing our tags.

Its absolutely ridiculous to charge only $34 for a doe pronghorn. People wonder why demand is through the roof when you can buy a doe pronghorn tag for the cost of going to see a chitty movie.
Never argued a WY doe tag was priced at market value, they are not.

Though I’m not sure any NR tags are priced at market value? I don’t think Fish and Game departments are looking to maximize returns with tag prices?
I think the premise that Fish and Game departments operate with a business mindset with tags as their product is wildly inaccurate.




Nevada has been charging over 1K for a decade or more...and a couple hundred to build points each year.

What's your point?
Prep points add to the cost, my only point.
 

PrairieHunter

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"As states realize they are losing revenue by subsidizing NR hunters with under market value tags they will figure out ways to generate more revenue with those tags"

As states realize they aren't maximizing profits and are selling tags at below market value they will adjust prices.

Is this what the OP meant? Subsidize tripped me up as that implies something different, there is no subsidy in the system.

"and spend tourism $ elsewhere where they can get a better return".

I have no idea what that means. WY isn't spending any money on NR elk tags? It's not like the state buys elk tags from the federal government and then resells them at a loss and then go forward they would stop doing that and instead invest the money in ski areas.

So yeah it's unclear, I'm not saying he's wrong I just wasn't sure of the premise.
There dam sure is state subsidy in the NR hunting system.

The state of Wyoming is subsidizing NR hunters via elk tags that are less than half the market value .

They are supporting an activity (NR hunting) financially by selling NR tags at a reduced price.
The state is paying for the subsidy financially via lost revenue from selling tags at market value. This reduces the price for the NR buyer and forces WY to find other sources to replace that lost revenue.
The state is promoting hunting with reduced price tags paid for by Wyoming residents who have to deal with the loss of $1,800 in revenue on every general elk tag sold which adds up when doing yearly budgets.

subsidizing
  1. support (an organization or activity) financially.
    "it was beyond the power of a state to subsidize a business"
    • pay part of the cost of producing (something) to reduce prices for the buyer.
      "the government subsidizes basic goods including sugar, petroleum, and wheat"
    • to aid or promote (someone or something, such as a private enterprise) with public money subsidize soybean farmers subsidize public transportation.




 

BuzzH

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Never argued a WY doe tag was priced at market value, they are not.

Though I’m not sure any NR tags are priced at market value? I don’t think Fish and Game departments are looking to maximize returns with tag prices?
I think the premise that Fish and Game departments operate with a business mindset with tags as their product is wildly inaccurate.





Prep points add to the cost, my only point.
Right, and in Nevada the prep point costs about 4x that of what the prep points costs in Wyoming.

I'm sitting on a small mountain of prep points in Nevada and still have yet to draw a single tag. But, I'm also not whining non-stop about it on a hunting board either.

That's MY point. NR's have had it too good for too long in Wyoming.

Oh, and I'm not saying NR tags have to be issued at market value, but they could be adjusted upward to reflect the pricing of surrounding states. Or at least keep up with inflation, or adjusted as management costs increase.
 

wllm

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Right, and in Nevada the prep point costs about 4x that of what the prep points costs in Wyoming.

I'm sitting on a small mountain of prep points in Nevada and still have yet to draw a single tag. But, I'm also not whining non-stop about it on a hunting board either.

That's MY point. NR's have had it too good for too long in Wyoming.

Oh, and I'm not saying NR tags have to be issued at market value, but they could be adjusted upward to reflect the pricing of surrounding states. Or at least keep up with inflation, or adjusted as management costs increase.
I think in general all licenses should be tied to CPI to give fish and game departments a stable budget.

What is the actual beef with Wyoming residents with NR? Aren’t the tag quotas for the most part fixed? Are there more NR hunting in WY in 2022 than in 1990?

I mean CO I get it, steamboat archery is 70% NR.
 

wllm

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There dam sure is state subsidy in the NR hunting system.

The state of Wyoming is subsidizing NR hunters via elk tags that are less than half the market value .

They are supporting an activity (NR hunting) financially by selling NR tags at a reduced price.
The state is paying for the subsidy financially via lost revenue from selling tags at market value. This reduces the price for the NR buyer and forces WY to find other sources to replace that lost revenue.
The state is promoting hunting with reduced price tags paid for by Wyoming residents who have to deal with the loss of $1,800 in revenue on every general elk tag sold which adds up when doing yearly budgets.

subsidizing
  1. support (an organization or activity) financially.
    "it was beyond the power of a state to subsidize a business"
    • pay part of the cost of producing (something) to reduce prices for the buyer.
      "the government subsidizes basic goods including sugar, petroleum, and wheat"
    • to aid or promote (someone or something, such as a private enterprise) with public money subsidize soybean farmers subsidize public transportation.

Dude you have a point with the premise but that’s 100% not how that word is used.

First usually there is actually money changing hands, not simply selling for less than market value.

Second is intention, you have to be undervaluing the product on purpose for some reason.
 
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TOGIE

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What is the actual beef with Wyoming residents with NR? Aren’t the tag quotas for the most part fixed? Are there more NR hunting in WY in 2022 than in 1990?

I mean CO I get it, steamboat archery is 70% NR.

i've always wondered this too.

generally speaking NR quotas are fixed. yet all the blame for crowding and other issues is focused on NRs. i've heard it from the mouths of multiple residents in saratoga - "all these damn NR's are taking our tags, i rarely draw my cow tag anymore, merp merp merp"

....?
 

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