US and Israel attack Iran

[SAJ-99]

To the bolded, yes.

But I think this administration takes it to a new level. Corruption, hypocrisy, lies…indefensible indecency. We can only race to the bottom so long till we splat.

One can curse the partisans of the last 30 years, and see the brokenness in both sides - fingers pointed at the insanity of other to justify their own - but there’s some real lines being crossed as of late. Things that four, eight, twelve years ago would’ve been scandalous defeaters are now just shrugged off.

Be it aeronautics, firefighting, scuba diving, etc, the Normalization of Deviance is a progressive path to tragedy. We’ve seen the aberrance of American leadership over and over, but things keep on chugging and so we don’t realize how deep the shit we might be in is, or how far we have fallen, and I believe we should be more concerned than ever before.


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The market showed some weird stuff on Friday that convinces me that someone knew of this decision before the rest of the World. Stock Market down but defense names up, oil up $3, gold up, Treasuries rally despite a morning hot-print on inflation. Too many things pointing the same direction. The question I ask is do I feel better thinking this is just the corruption of the administration in gear with people sharing little tidbits of info with friends or do I want to believe someone listening because they can't run a secure operation? Neither makes me comfortable, but I made some money off of it so...

The good news is that this isn't all that "new". The Iranians were chanting "Death to America" in the 1980's at the same time Reagan was selling them weapons. It made Ollie North a right-wing joke hero. Kind of makes some of the comments on this thread from guys that were old enough to know about that a little humorous.

Edit: Oh, and my rule is - if it is an official statement, just assume it is a lie. If it is Trump answering a question in real time, he is probably saying more than he should.

 

[Bonasababy]

British air base in Cyprus was hit by Iranian drones. Kuwait mistakenly shot down three US jets. Spain orders US aircraft to leave.

 

[Ben Lamb]

So the Olympics are over, huh?

 

[406dn]

I just got home from the gym. Given the events of the weekend, there was some political discussion. Everyone, more or less, already knows the various viewpoints. So, most of the time, we stick to the weather, hunting, grandkids, etc. It got a little heated this morning, but not out of line.

I was able to get an extra rep on most every lift I do. I told my wife, if Trump could keep me this annoyed, I'd make some progress in the gym.

At least when GWB went to war with Iraq, he laid out his case, and assembled a number of allies in the cause. I was unconvinced then, but at least he gaslighted us, up front, about weapons of mass destruction. This time no case made, our allies don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole.

If we don't stay, the government that emerges will be the side with the better weapons.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

If we don't stay, the government that emerges will be the side with the better weapons.

Lord help us avoid putting substantial boots on the ground in the first place..

 

[406dn]

Lord help us avoid putting substantial boots on the ground in the first place..

Just to be clear, I DO NOT want us to lose American GI's in an Iranian occupation.

I just don't see how a moderate government emerges from chaos.

 

[nrpate05]

I just got home from the gym. Given the events of the weekend, there was some political discussion. Everyone, more or less, already knows the various viewpoints. So, most of the time, we stick to the weather, hunting, grandkids, etc. It got a little heated this morning, but not out of line.

I was able to get an extra rep on most every lift I do. I told my wife, if Trump could keep me this annoyed, I'd make some progress in the gym.

At least when GWB went to war with Iraq, he laid out his case, and assembled a number of allies in the cause. I was unconvinced then, but at least he gaslighted us, up front, about weapons of mass destruction. This time no case made, our allies don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole.

If we don't stay, the government that emerges will be the side with the better weapons.

The problem is if Trump were to make the case the only thing he could say is that Israel has him by the balls on Epstein and has been blackmailing him, so he has to do whatever they want. Where is Tulsi Gabbard on this?

 

[Bonasababy]

Interesting Reuters flow chart showing who has been killed. Not sure why the text didn't carry over. Supreme leader at the top, close advisers and those in key positions in his administration below him (Chief of staff, Senior advisor, Commander of the revolutionary guard) , other important military figures on the right. Red bars = killed.

News is reporting a couple of key people poised to take over--One of them the supreme leaders nephew. NOT friendly to the middle east/US interests people, from what I have read.

This is why it was so important before any attack occurred to have a plan for true regime change. So far the plan seems to be "we will kill who we can, Iranians--you have to try and fight off the people we didn't/couldn't kill or nothing changes" .

 

[Bonasababy]

US officials privately expressing doubt that regime change will occur...

Quotes of note:

Reuters reported earlier that Central Intelligence Agency assessments presented to the White House in the weeks before the Iran attack concluded that if Khamenei was killed, he could be replaced by hard-line figures from the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps or equally hard-line clerics, two sources said.

One U.S. official with knowledge of internal White House deliberations said IRGC officials are unlikely to voluntarily capitulate in part because they have benefited from a vast patronage network designed to maintain internal loyalty.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-officials-skeptical-regime-change-tehran-after-khamenei-killing-say-sources-2026-03-02/

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Those protests that war hawks like to talk about.

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[TOGIE]

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a federal official admitting that longstanding crippling sanctions did something they were designed to do?

*gasp*

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

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[Wind Gypsy]

@Nameless Range, I don’t disagree with your assessment as to this administration blatantly saying one thing and then doing whatever the hell they want.
Serious question though, hasn’t every administration done the same thing? Certainly not as overtly with the messaging but in actions that are contrary to the best interests of Americans I see a pattern of the powerful perpetuating their agendas and corruption and their “team” supporting their actions.

The state of the union is not healthy. We are an empire in decline from the corruption of a thousand cuts.

I agree with you we need to be vigilant as hell through the course of this administration and IMO we’re going to need that same vigilance for administrations to come.

In my opinion as a nation of constituents we have blindly trusted our representatives to implement values we have not comprehended without holding them accountable for actions that were in violation of our intentions. We were mesmerized by the color of our teams uniforms rather than upholding the best principles of the values that initially justified the difference in parties as a nation of common goals with disagreements on the best course to achieve them.

Well said.

IMO the only chance in hell we have to save things is focusing on the power structure that controls our politicians and fixing it. The power structure will continue to divide us and tribalize us so we ignore that no matter what party a politician belongs, they represent the interests of the power structure and not ours. I fear we're already cooked.