Thoughts on this bailout and “stimulus”?

[Elkmagnet]

What's more American than spending your $1200 in government printed money on a Chinese made TV?

I can't wait to hear about how all the anti socialist spent their checks.

 

[golfer]

What's more American than spending your $1200 in government printed money on a Chinese made TV?

I can't wait to hear about how all the anti socialist spent their checks.

The way things are looking those 1200 dollar checks might take sometime until they decide they want to work together in DC.

 

[nontyp]

I think a precedent was set with the 2008 bailouts - large companies don't need to manage their balance sheets responsibly, Uncle Sam will bail you out if you are in the "too big to fail" category. Being as irresponsible as some of these companies have been, especially with the recent windfall of huge decreases in corporate tax rates, it is the employees and the many vendors who are small businesses who have been put at greatest risk.

If these companies go tits up, the folks who have been getting huge bonuses by increasing share price by doing nothing more than embarking on stock repurchase plans are going to be just fine. Some may not understand how it works, but large Executive and Director compensation is given for increase in share price. It is easy to create temporary spikes in stock price at the expense of future long-term viability and sound balance sheet management; just embark on a large share repurchase program. The company is not worth a penny more, but the number of share outstanding is less, so the price per share is higher. Jackpot for those who have contracts that award huge bonuses for increases in share price.

Nothing has been done to help the company. Nothing has been done to help the employees who have made the company what it is. Nope, the balance sheet and financial health might have even went in the shitter, but because the share price has increased due to this little financial stunt known as share repurchase, tens of millions in bonuses are paid to Executives and Directors who have done nothing of value to the company and its business enterprise.

The employees, the vendors, and the communities that depend on these companies are going to pay the price; they get to walk down to the unemployment line. While employees are picking up pink slips, the small handful of schmucks at the top are going to sneak out of town with their trunk loads of cash and live a life unaffected by their bad decisions.

I am not inclined to see another stimulus package passed that rewards this kind of behavior in a way so slanted to such a minuscule handful of top folks in Board Rooms. We set the path forward in 2008 with that bailout. It only accelerated with the corporate tax law changes in 2017. I want financial help for those who are bearing the burnt of this, but I'd prefer not to reinforce these bad ideas and bad behaviors that seems to come from many corporate Board Rooms.

This hits the nail on the head. I really wish congress had the guts to let the airlines go bankrupt. This would set precedent in the other direction and corporate america would take notice. I think it’s important to understand that letting them go bankrupt would not mean they go away. New ownership and new leadership would take over a highly profitable business and would set the companies on a new path forward.
Drives me crazy when these politicians act like it’s an emergency to give airlines billions of dollars.

 

[brymoore]

Hey now! Democrats are giving $1,500!
Do the Republicans have a counter offer?

 

[noharleyyet]

What's more American than spending your $1200 in government printed money on a Chinese made TV?

I can't wait to hear about how all the anti socialist spent their checks.

magnet, we're all sorta farked....anti, pro, ambivalent. I mean seriously screwed, but I'm afraid you're gonna hafta wait a bit longer...like baby birds waiting to be fed. But those darned anti-socialists'll get their comeuppance. Huzzah.

 

[SAJ-99]

I think a precedent was set with the 2008 bailouts - large companies don't need to manage their balance sheets responsibly, Uncle Sam will bail you out if you are in the "too big to fail" category. Being as irresponsible as some of these companies have been, especially with the recent windfall of huge decreases in corporate tax rates, it is the employees and the many vendors who are small businesses who have been put at greatest risk.

If these companies go tits up, the folks who have been getting huge bonuses by increasing share price by doing nothing more than embarking on stock repurchase plans are going to be just fine. Some may not understand how it works, but large Executive and Director compensation is given for increase in share price. It is easy to create temporary spikes in stock price at the expense of future long-term viability and sound balance sheet management; just embark on a large share repurchase program. The company is not worth a penny more, but the number of share outstanding is less, so the price per share is higher. Jackpot for those who have contracts that award huge bonuses for increases in share price.

Nothing has been done to help the company. Nothing has been done to help the employees who have made the company what it is. Nope, the balance sheet and financial health might have even went in the shitter, but because the share price has increased due to this little financial stunt known as share repurchase, tens of millions in bonuses are paid to Executives and Directors who have done nothing of value to the company and its business enterprise.

The employees, the vendors, and the communities that depend on these companies are going to pay the price; they get to walk down to the unemployment line. While employees are picking up pink slips, the small handful of schmucks at the top are going to sneak out of town with their trunk loads of cash and live a life unaffected by their bad decisions.

I am not inclined to see another stimulus package passed that rewards this kind of behavior in a way so slanted to such a minuscule handful of top folks in Board Rooms. We set the path forward in 2008 with that bailout. It only accelerated with the corporate tax law changes in 2017. I want financial help for those who are bearing the burnt of this, but I'd prefer not to reinforce these bad ideas and bad behaviors that seems to come from many corporate Board Rooms.

Well said. The interesting part is that this is a common perspective on the 2008 bailouts (which I share), but those bailouts were actually profitable. Fannie and Freddie are still largely owned by the government (citizens?) and are cash cows. I suspect that the view is driven by lackluster wage increases for workers but increasing stock values and C-suite compensation.
I guess I have no problem giving a check to Boeing, but I want a large equity stake and severe limitations on what they can do with it.

 

[Elkmagnet]

magnet, we're all sorta farked....anti, pro, ambivalent. I mean seriously screwed, but I'm afraid you're gonna hafta wait a bit longer...like baby birds waiting to be fed. But those darned anti-socialists'll get their comeuppance. Huzzah.

No matter what happens we decide more debt is the answer.
China for the win....

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Democrats are being jackasses right now about this. Lots of things in the bill that arent great. But you cant bitch about hospitals having shortages and businesses struggling on one hand and basically filibuster the bill that provides the relief with the other hand. Disgusting. Their to damn worried about achieving their political visions with this bill than getting relief on the way.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Hey now! Democrats are giving $1,500!
Do the Republicans have a counter offer?

I'd be a lot happier if we temporarily fast tracked unemployment benefits I don't need anything... yet.
Hopefully I can do some mini share buybacks if I get some extra.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You know who you are and what you did.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Let's cram some windmills in the bill. Why? Like what in the world is going on? Cram all the democrat wishlist bullshit in the bill. That's what their trying to do. Unreal.

 

[nontyp]

Democrats are being jackasses right now about this. Lots of things in the bill that arent great. But you cant bitch about hospitals having shortages and businesses struggling on one hand and basically filibuster the bill that provides the relief with the other hand. Disgusting. Their to damn worried about achieving their political visions with this bill than getting relief on the way.

Both sides are playing politics. One of the main things the democrats want is rules and transparency applied to the corporate bailout money like limiting stock buy-backs, which I 100% agree with and hope they get.
I’m moderate, i equally like and dislike members of both parties but I actually think the Democrats are doing the right thing in regards to this bill.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Both sides are playing politics. One of the main things the democrats want is rules and transparency applied to the corporate bailout money like limiting stock buy-backs, which I 100% agree with and hope they get.
I’m moderate, i equally like and dislike members of both parties but I actually think the Democrats are doing the right thing in regards to this bill.

No their not look at the crapola that Pelosi asked for in her new bill today. It's ridiculous. I agree on the buy backs to. But trump literally said on saturday he wants those rules in the bill to prevent those buy backs from happening.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Both sides are playing politics. One of the main things the democrats want is rules and transparency applied to the corporate bailout money like limiting stock buy-backs, which I 100% agree with and hope they get.
I’m moderate, i equally like and dislike members of both parties but I actually think the Democrats are doing the right thing in regards to this bill.

Agreed. I could give two shits about airline fuel but I do care a lot about taking care of the average Joe before billionaires. I wholeheartedly agree with their concern.

 

[jryoung]

No their not look at the crapola that Pelosi asked for in her new bill today. It's ridiculous. I agree on the buy backs to. But trump literally said on saturday he wants those rules in the bill to prevent those buy backs from happening.

What did she put in the bill, can you link to the sections. The reason I ask is because the reporting is abhorrent and hard to keep up with, they just talk about how close they are or whose playing politics.

Just show me the text.

and I forgot to mention earlier.....props to Nikki Haley, it seems there are a few principled individuals still out there.

 

[elkduds]

Democrats are being jackasses right now about this. Lots of things in the bill that arent great. But you cant bitch about hospitals having shortages and businesses struggling on one hand and basically filibuster the bill that provides the relief with the other hand. Disgusting. Their to damn worried about achieving their political visions with this bill than getting relief on the way.

I respectfully disagree with every point listed, except that it is disgusting. If ever there was a time to avoid the gridlock of polarization, would it not be just like this? For the GOP to draft a bill they term "bipartisan" without consulting Dems is disingenuous if not dishonest. Their bill began not as a solution; rather as a starting point for negotiations, or a political game of chicken. And that is precisely how this is playing out, w current negotiations being an accelerated version of the status quo in DC. Watch and see what remains of the stimulus after each party has sung and danced for their donors, peers and potential voters.

Outlaw, I share your frustration: how dare we get the government we deserve, it is almost like we elected these shysters! IMO if your post began w "Republicans" instead, it would be equally accurate. Obviously the 2 parties disagree on many things. Did we elect them to advocate for our side in Us Vs Them, or did we elect them to protect and guide this country forward? Since many of them cannot seem to tell the difference, it is on us as constituents to direct our legislators to compromise NOW.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

What did she put in the bill, can you link to the sections. The reason I ask is because the reporting is abhorrent and hard to keep up with, they just talk about how close they are or whose playing politics.

Just show me the text.

and I forgot to mention earlier.....props to Nikki Haley, it seems there are a few principled individuals still out there.

Tax credits for wind and so li ar energy. New emission standards for airlines. Why???

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Tax credits for wind and so li ar energy. New emission standards for airlines. Why???

While some may agree with those things and that's fine, but why are they being injected into this bill? This bill has nothing to do with any of those things. It's about trying to help the people who need it. I tell you why. It's because their using this bill as an opportunity to implement their political visions that have nothing to do with what's going on now.

 

[jryoung]

Tax credits for wind and so li ar energy. New emission standards for airlines. Why???

What did the airlines do with their tax break? What did they do with their earnings over the past decade since the last bailout?

What are the renewable credits? Just extension of ITC/PTC? I'm guessing banks are for it. I was part of nearly $500M of financing for rooftop solar, that's a shitload of boots on rooftops installing.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

What did the airlines do with their tax break? What did they do with their earnings over the past decade since the last bailout?

What does that have to do with emissions?