Thanks John, but u suck now get out!

[Shangobango]

Devil is in the details, I agree I would like to see more info.

When I read this statement my take away is the SC is acknowledging they are a mostly white org, and this is due largely to the fact that over the decades their leaders have strived to keep minorities out of their group. I think the intent is to bring in new perspectives that will help the org evolve and bring in new members.

Related, have you listened to the most recent Meateater episode with Rue Mapp? Definitely a good listen. Mapp's comments highlighted for me some of my blind spots about conservation/hunter recruitment/etc. She discussed a couple barriers for entry that I wouldn't have even considered.

I've made a couple of comments on hear about how annoyed I get with CPW commissioner Adams and some of the other specific "outdoor leadership" commissioners. Adam's et al. have never hunted and have no idea how our system works, commissioners will be discussing a highly nuanced issue eg limited/OTC archery tags in SW CO and some of the commissioners are like "Wait you have to have a tag to hunt, you can't just run into the woods and murder animals...

What, until recently, I haven't considered is how these individuals bring to the commission the views of other groups that went previously present, and how that perspective might help us widen the base and acceptance of hunting in our community. Adam's may not get a bunch of black hunters on the mountain, but she may get a lot of people outside... and those voters may look at a wildlife ballot issue differently knowing that someone that they trust is on the CPW board.

I think that SC wanting new perspectives in leadership roles is admirable. My point is they should consider making it happen in a way that does not cheapen it. To me that part of the statement did just that.

I did listen to the episode but I did so while at work and busy with other tasks so I need to give it another listen. I agree that it opened my eyes to some blind spots. She brought up several ideas that I haven't considered.

To your last point, I think that we should surely be looking for ways to widen the base of the conservation minded hunting and fishing community. I completely agree with that.

 

[westbranch]

Your reflection of my comment may be good for a few cheers, though conjuring the premise I stated history disappeared due to... is a far fetched debate of the topic.

Yeah, the post was meant as a bit of a joke. But it seems like many of those complaining about things being renamed are saying that we are going to somehow forget history if statues taken down or things are renamed. Looking back at your posts from the first page along with the one I quoted not sure how else they can be taken. And I am sure if I went back to find the Teddy thread from last month there were be quite a few posts about history being erased from forum members, but I wasn't keeping up with that thread very well. Far from far fetched based on what I am reading. But for whatever reason on most of these topics I end up somewhere in the middle thinking that the reactions from both sides are silly.

I don't see a reason to take down the majority (or possibly any) of the statues of figures like John Muir or Teddy but I don't see it as bad to discuss and acknowledge their views and some of their not so favorable history. I see very little reason to celebrate Columbus and I don't think we are going to forget about that history anytime soon. And whenever Columbus is mentioned so should his actions. I do not like all of the confederate names on public property and public statues of that celebrate confederate figures. All of the confederacy stuff is probably the biggest collection of participation trophys in the U.S. Maybe we can dredge that thread up.

Either way 2020 has been a wild ride and I am ready to move on to the UFO news:

No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon’s U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public (Published 2020)

For over a decade, the program, now tucked inside the Office of Naval Intelligence, has discussed mysterious events in classified briefings.

www.nytimes.com

 

[88man]

I believe in this case the Sierra Club has just opted to own their history and move on... I doubt we are going to see any physical statues moved or names changed.

I think they are playing monkey see monkey do and they think it will appeal to their greater base. Then again I could be wrong and the leadership of the SC might just be lefties extremists

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think they are playing monkey see monkey do and they think it will appeal to their greater base. Then again I could be wrong and the leadership of the SC might just be lefties extremists

So net net positive

 

[VikingsGuy]

All of the confederacy stuff is probably the biggest collection of participation trophys in the U.S.

Best soundbite of the thread!

 

[Sytes]

BLM, care to remove the fist symbolism of past anti-white Black Panther movement?

Or we'll pander Sierra Club activity to stomp on the grave of a conservationist, John Muir, pull down Theodore Roosevelt Statue, destroy Ulysses Grant monument,

Wait, they're exempt from such critical thinking because they deserve sympathy?

Reminds me of this racist fist...

Racism sucks regardless color.

 

[88man]

BLM, care to remove the fist symbolism of past anti-white Black Panther movement?

Or we'll pander Sierra Club activity to stomp on the grave of a conservationist, John Muir, pull down Theodore Roosevelt Statue, destroy Ulysses Grant monument,

Wait, they're exempt from such critical thinking because they deserve sympathy?

Reminds me of this racist fist...

Racism sucks regardless color.

Thank You! Well said.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Six pages in, and I'm still pretty sure I have zero GAF what the Sierra Club does. Know your history, be factual, honest, and pragmatic, and learn from it.....

 

[Deleted member 28227]

BLM, care to remove the fist symbolism of past anti-white Black Panther movement?

Or we'll pander Sierra Club activity to stomp on the grave of a conservationist, John Muir, pull down Theodore Roosevelt Statue, destroy Ulysses Grant monument,

Wait, they're exempt from such critical thinking because they deserve sympathy?

Reminds me of this racist fist...

Racism sucks regardless color.

The fist has been a symbol of solidarity since the 17th century, it's been a symbol of fights for freedom from oppression across the world. (Though it's been co-opted by some fascist groups as well)
BLM and the Black panther/black power don't own that symbol

1848 - French Revolution


1917


1930s Republican Salute - Spain - opposing Franco


Huge part of Russian Communist Symbology

Women's Lib


Tiananmen Square 1989


1998 Otpor - Serbia


Rose Revolution Georgia(Country of) 2003


Lebanon Arab Spring


2007 Saffron Revolution Myanmar


It's also been big with Labor Unions



Also Howard Stern


It's basically ubiquitous at this point...

 

[mtmuley]

Don't mess with wllm1313's laboratory. mtmuley

 

[Sytes]

Respect the time spent sharing an opinion within this thread about Sierra Club's decision... that you don't GAF about Sierra Club's decision.

Wonder how much media revenue has been generated due to Sierda Club's public announcement.

Cheers for the second half of your statement. Wish more people GAF to maintain integrity. Respect for others is a rare treat nowadays.

***

Anyone changing last names due to lineage that may have involved something today's era considers, offensive?

Removing a black fist?

Any BLM declarations for Farrakhan portraits removed, spray painted, torn? Statues removed?
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

One of many examples...

The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Respect the time spent sharing an opinion within this thread about Sierra Club's decision... that you don't GAF about Sierra Club's decision.

Wonder how much media revenue has been generated due to Sierda Club's public announcement.

Cheers for the second half of your statement. Wish more people GAF to maintain integrity. Respect for others is a rare treat nowadays.

***

Anyone changing last names due to lineage that may have involved something today's era considers, offensive?

Removing a black fist?

Any BLM declarations for Farrakhan portraits removed, spray painted, torn? Statues removed?
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

One of many examples...

I think the Sierra club saw the writing on the wall and got out in front of it, they controlled the narrative. I think this one is going to get a lot less press and will go away much faster than if a third part had brought it up in a gotcha moment.

Aside from MLK are there any statues or monuments to any other leaders of these movements on public ground... or at all?

 

[Sytes]

@wllm1313 Direct from Co-Founder Alicia Garza. The Black Fist represents, Black Power as used by the Black Panther Party, adopted by BLM in 2014.

public ground...

What do you consider "public ground"? Museum steps where Theodore Roosevelt statue once existed? Pressured to be removed?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@wllm1313 Direct from Co-Founder Alicia Garza. The Black Fist represents, Black Power as used by the Black Panther Party, adopted by BLM in 2014.

What do you consider "public ground"? Museum steps where Theodore Roosevelt statue once existed? Pressured to be removed?

My point is not where BLM got the symbol but the history of the symbol, where did the black power moment get it? It’s a ubiquitous symbol of struggle.

Yes exactly, my point was that really isn’t a comparison, because their aren’t statues of black historical figures. We don’t get to debate if xyz black person/native person/ etc should have a statue in a public park or in front of a public building because there really aren’t any by comparison. No does our history really celebrate anyone other than white men.

 

[Sytes]

My point is not where BLM got the symbol but the history of the symbol, where did the black power moment get it? It’s a ubiquitous symbol of struggle.

Yes exactly, my point was that really isn’t a comparison, because their aren’t statues of black historical figures. We don’t get to debate if xyz black person/native person/ etc should have a statue in a public park or in front of a public building because there really aren’t any by comparison. No does our history really celebrate anyone other than white men.

My point is related to my post... BLM use is fashioned from the influence of the Black Panther Party. My thoughts of the Black Panther Party starts with the Terror... word. Your point is related to the history of raising a hand in general. Two different topics all together. I raised my hand in school (now days, I believe that is shunned)... I'm not comparing my hand raised in school to the use based on the Black Panther movement...
Regarding Statues... You kidding me? Off the top of my thoughts, Malcolm X has a statue in Harlem... Museum property. As was TR's statue. That's w/o google search.

I digress from this line of discussion. Threads frequently veer from the original and I believe this one has veered too far off. Of course, I respect your opinion - we disagree.

 

[noharleyyet]

My point is not where BLM got the symbol but the history of the symbol, where did the black power moment get it? It’s a ubiquitous symbol of struggle.

Yes exactly, my point was that really isn’t a comparison, because their aren’t statues of black historical figures. We don’t get to debate if xyz black person/native person/ etc should have a statue in a public park or in front of a public building because there really aren’t any by comparison. No does our history really celebrate anyone other than white men.

Heisman winners count?....better not mess with Earl's either. But I get your much belabored rearview 20/20. And I hear they're re-erecting Douglas....no?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Heisman winners count?....better not mess with Earl's either. But I get your much belabored rearview 20/20. And I hear they're re-erecting Douglas....no?
View attachment 148066

I dk... public or private? Does The Juice have a statue?

 

[noharleyyet]

I dk... public or private? Does The Juice have a statue?

I dk & dc

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I dk... public or private? Does The Juice have a statue?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Character on display.