Ryan Busse. Anyone?

[lpcoutdoors]

I think it's a parent's decision how best to manage their right, versus the government trying to mange their family.

Also, you misses one key aspect... UNLOADED and locked... Not only when thugs slam the mobile home door of a single mother who has her daughter inside... now she must unlock the shotgun and load 12 gauge rounds. Nope... not for me.

Maybe for you - though parents make better decisions than government.

You might be that kind of parent, but some, too many are not. The kids who died at the Michigan school died because of parents inability to make those best decisions. If your kid was one of those kids you can better bet you would be seeing depending on other parents decision making ability about guns very very different.

MSN

 

[bayoublaster7527]

This is like the thread that will never end. Sounds like we have established that Ryan is probably a pretty nice guy in person and has become an outspoken partisan hack for the left. Nothing wrong with that, we are all entitled to our own political opinions and plenty of those out there on both sides. If you don’t like his book, don’t buy it. Kinda like guns and hunting, if you don’t like guns, don’t buy em and if you don’t like hunting don’t go hunting. No one is trying to force anyone to do such. It’s like we have lost the ability to just let people live their lives.

 

[hossblur]

I was out, until I starting reading these attempts to rewrite history.

I don't live in the "racist" panhandle.

BLM "protested" in SLC, by burning cop cars, spray painting the capitol, oh, and brandishing "assault" weapons.

In Provo, they shot a guy.

In total, those "peaceful" folks did about $3 billion in damage, and left 20dead.

That's not including since the summer of love, and the police killed. Nor the "dancing grandma's" in Wisconsin, or now the political assassination attempted a week ago.

And one of the SLC BLM guys, got arrested after he assaulted the Capitol on Jan 6.

So before we pretend that a bunch of white supremacists went looking for a fight, let's at least remember WHO was doing the fighting, and WHAT they were doing.

I'm glad Sytes ACTUALLY went and read the Gifford's site. I was waiting for the "read the book" crowd to respond, but of course when they saw WHAT Giffords says, and WHO is on that board, and what they want, including BB gun bans, they had no comment, or the usual meme. Yup, there is some lockstep going on, but Im not an NRA member. Who is Busse lockstep with? If you want the answer, GO READ THE SITE

 

[lpcoutdoors]

This is like the thread that will never end. Sounds like we have established that Ryan is probably a pretty nice guy in person and has become an outspoken partisan hack for the left. Nothing wrong with that, we are all entitled to our own political opinions and plenty of those out there on both sides. If you don’t like his book, don’t buy it. Kinda like guns and hunting, if you don’t like guns, don’t buy em and if you don’t like hunting don’t go hunting. No one is trying to force anyone to do such. It’s like we have lost the ability to just let people live their lives.

Irresponsible people have used guns to take away others ability, children in schools, to "live their lives." Leaders don't sit back and just accept that and let it happen.

I have sold thousands of guns to thousands of people. I have also refused to sell guns, at risk to my job, at times. I have fulfilled by childhood gunfighter and mountain man dreams of making a living with a gun in my hand as both a solider and a professional hunting guide. I have counseled many young boys and their families who have or been ordered to have concerns about becoming school shooters. I have consulted with schools, principles, and parents on school shooter concern responses.

I think those of us who lead and do try our best not to make it about our qualifications and experience versus those who sit back and complain and whine about not being told what to do. But the school counselor at the Michigan school who didn't check the kids backpack that had the gun in it that he later that day killed other kids with didn't do so, in part, because of fears of offending folks who complain about their rights, devoid of responsible leadership, being infringed upon.

These debates are not about guns, they are about how the actual, not the theoretical, world actually works and what actual, not theoretical, leaders must actually do to try, not guarantees in life but we must try, to do to limit the negative occurrences that come with our rights. Just shocks me when who I assume to be otherwise good folks, as hunters, are just so focused on their own egocentric stances that they cannot be willing to be at best slightly, in reality not fantasy, inconvenienced or disappointed by gun regulations, which by the way have vastly increased in my lifetime. Hell, a big part of the reason I joined the army was to play with the cool guns you couldn't by, much cooler guns can be bought at most big box stores now.

When I was a gun salesman back in the 90's, too young to even legally buy a handgun, though I possessed many, the Brady bill required handgun purchasers to come back after a waiting period of 7 days to pick up their gun. Some would gripe about this and in a youthful attempt to just appease them, no education or experience in socio-politics at the time to inform this statement and before the mass of public shootings, I would say "well, you know, if all of us having to wait a week for this whole 10 years of the Brady bill saves one mother's son from killing himself or one wife's husband from shooting her, then I'm willing to be inconvenienced." 100 percent of those people all nodded their head and said something like, "yeah, that's good, I am too."

Be a leader who's willing to help not a whiner who is doing nothing or in fact contributing to the harm. So glad Ryan Busse has catalyzed these conversations. Give's me hope that both the world and hunters are heading in a helpful direction.

 

[hossblur]

well, you know, if all of us having to wait a week for this whole 10 years of the Brady bill saves one mother's son from killing himself or one wife's husband from shooting her, then I'm willing to be inconvenienced." 100 percent of those people all nodded their head and said something like, "yeah, that's good, I am too."

The starting point for EVERY horrible public policy, ever.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Irresponsible people have used guns to take away others ability, children in schools, to "live their lives." Leaders don't sit back and just accept that and let it happen.

I have sold thousands of guns to thousands of people. I have also refused to sell guns, at risk to my job, at times. I have fulfilled by childhood gunfighter and mountain man dreams of making a living with a gun in my hand as both a solider and a professional hunting guide. I have counseled many young boys and their families who have or been ordered to have concerns about becoming school shooters. I have consulted with schools, principles, and parents on school shooter concern responses.

I think those of us who lead and do try our best not to make it about our qualifications and experience versus those who sit back and complain and whine about not being told what to do. But the school counselor at the Michigan school who didn't check the kids backpack that had the gun in it that he later that day killed other kids with didn't do so, in part, because of fears of offending folks who complain about their rights, devoid of responsible leadership, being infringed upon.

These debates are not about guns, they are about how the actual, not the theoretical, world actually works and what actual, not theoretical, leaders must actually do to try, not guarantees in life but we must try, to do to limit the negative occurrences that come with our rights. Just shocks me when who I assume to be otherwise good folks, as hunters, are just so focused on their own egocentric stances that they cannot be willing to be at best slightly, in reality not fantasy, inconvenienced or disappointed by gun regulations, which by the way have vastly increased in my lifetime. Hell, a big part of the reason I joined the army was to play with the cool guns you couldn't by, much cooler guns can be bought at most big box stores now.

When I was a gun salesman back in the 90's, too young to even legally buy a handgun, though I possessed many, the Brady bill required handgun purchasers to come back after a waiting period of 7 days to pick up their gun. Some would gripe about this and in a youthful attempt to just appease them, no education or experience in socio-politics at the time to inform this statement and before the mass of public shootings, I would say "well, you know, if all of us having to wait a week for this whole 10 years of the Brady bill saves one mother's son from killing himself or one wife's husband from shooting her, then I'm willing to be inconvenienced." 100 percent of those people all nodded their head and said something like, "yeah, that's good, I am too."

Be a leader who's willing to help not a whiner who is doing nothing or in fact contributing to the harm. So glad Ryan Busse has catalyzed these conversations. Give's me hope that both the world and hunters are heading in a helpful direction.

I feel like I have read this diatribe before. You have established your credibility (leader, gunfighter, mountain man, gun salesmen, etc) and clearly no one else’s opinion matters. Furthermore if others don’t agree with you that increased gun control is required, they are either a whiner or not a leader. Did I get that correct?

 

[Dirthog67]

well, you know, if all of us having to wait a week for this whole 10 years of the Brady bill saves one mother's son from killing himself or one wife's husband from shooting her, then I'm willing to be inconvenienced." 100 percent of those people all nodded their head and said something like, "yeah, that's good, I am too."

The starting point for EVERY horrible public policy, ever.

Why? Why can't you wait a week? Why are so few people willing to be slightly inconvenienced to help another? Why is waiting a week so terrible?

 

[lpcoutdoors]

I feel like I have read this diatribe before. You have established your credibility (leader, gunfighter, mountain man, gun salesmen, etc) and clearly no one else’s opinion matters. Furthermore if others don’t agree with you that increased gun control is required, they are either a whiner or not a leader. Did I get that correct?

Nope you sure didn't get that correct, but you got it exactly as I expected. Because that's all you can do, you can't actually discuss so you have to disparage. And you can't seem to see that if I'm guilty of diminishing someone's opinion then you are equally guilty and you are who said things to elicit my response. So no, you are not a whiner or a leader because you see things different, you are a whiner and not a leader because you are whining and not leading. I of course do not expect you to see that. I do however, know that others who are listening and wrestling with their thoughts, feelings, and beliefs can and will grow through this discussion.

 

[lpcoutdoors]

well, you know, if all of us having to wait a week for this whole 10 years of the Brady bill saves one mother's son from killing himself or one wife's husband from shooting her, then I'm willing to be inconvenienced." 100 percent of those people all nodded their head and said something like, "yeah, that's good, I am too."

The starting point for EVERY horrible public policy, ever.

Just to be clear, not so much advocating for the Brady Bill, that was just what was going on in this debate at the time of my example. But lets also be very clear about a few things. First, in keeping with that example, law enforcement organizations were 100% against the Brady Bill going away. Every cop I know is an ardent supporter of 2A, so huh, seems like gun guys can also be very much for gun regulations. Second, I'd never even heard of the Giffords org before you brought it up, so thank you. I am now a supporter of their reasonable efforts to lead for the benefit of all, not just a vocal few. Because clearly the Gifford org is very qualified to lead policy discussion. Which brings me to my last point, you are certainly not qualified to determine what is or has been "every horrible public policy ever", and that is not an insult. You just aren't. I'm sure not either by the way. You are certainly qualified to not like something, not feel good about something, be afraid of something and express that fear with anger, and you are certainly qualified to talk all you like about how you feel and think. But you are not qualified to make such broad judgements. And here's the thing, that's good, for you, me and all. Because I care about how you feel, and I hope others do too. But how you are confusing how you feel with how you are thinking and communication, you cause yourself and others problems. That is of course not unique to this situation, it is pretty much the cause of every problem of any kind ever.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I had an opinion of NW Montana, panhandle of Idaho, long before reading the book. It is not an entirely positive view of the culture. It is not under represented with white supremacists.

^Bolded is undeniable. When I heard that story of the CA black instahunter fella from Big Fin's podcast getting told he's not welcome around there at a trailhead while bear hunting in MT, my first thought was it's not all that surprising if it was in NW MT.

 

[hossblur]

Why? Why can't you wait a week? Why are so few people willing to be slightly inconvenienced to help another? Why is waiting a week so terrible?

Do you have the same standard for a car? How about a prescription? For a knife?

That abused wife, does she need to live in fear for a week?

If it's a week, why not 2? Why not have to have a psych exam? How about wait for ATF to come check your storage?

Why not?

If it saves JUST ONE LIFE, right?

 

[hossblur]

Just to be clear, not so much advocating for the Brady Bill, that was just what was going on in this debate at the time of my example. But lets also be very clear about a few things. First, in keeping with that example, law enforcement organizations were 100% against the Brady Bill going away. Every cop I know is an ardent supporter of 2A, so huh, seems like gun guys can also be very much for gun regulations. Second, I'd never even heard of the Giffords org before you brought it up, so thank you. I am now a supporter of their reasonable efforts to lead for the benefit of all, not just a vocal few. Because clearly the Gifford org is very qualified to lead policy discussion. Which brings me to my last point, you are certainly not qualified to determine what is or has been "every horrible public policy ever", and that is not an insult. You just aren't. I'm sure not either by the way. You are certainly qualified to not like something, not feel good about something, be afraid of something and express that fear with anger, and you are certainly qualified to talk all you like about how you feel and think. But you are not qualified to make such broad judgements. And here's the thing, that's good, for you, me and all. Because I care about how you feel, and I hope others do too. But how you are confusing how you feel with how you are thinking and communication, you cause yourself and others problems. That is of course not unique to this situation, it is pretty much the cause of every problem of any kind ever.

Not knowing who the Gifford's org is? But your a gun salesman?

Ok.

The pic is David Chipman. One of those "leaders" of the Gifford org. Behind him is about 60 folks burned alive, courtesy of the ATF. He sits on the same board as Busse.

He also, ran guns(fast and furious) into Mexico cartels.

One of those guns, killed a border agent. Countless others killed Mexicans.
They did so, to try and create DEATHS in the US to create a means by which to get assault rifles banned.

You know, traded a few dead folks to further their political desires.

HE SITS ON THE BOARD WITH BUSSE.

That's the "leadership" you now support

 

[Gulf of America]

Do you have the same standard for a car? How about a prescription? For a knife?

That abused wife, does she need to live in fear for a week?

If it's a week, why not 2? Why not have to have a psych exam? How about wait for ATF to come check your storage?

Why not?

If it saves JUST ONE LIFE, right?

Have you ever bought a car or filled a prescription? There's layers upon layers of inconvenience for both! Vehicles have to be registered. Prescriptions have national databases that track people. Nice try though.

 

[hossblur]

Have you ever bought a car or filled a prescription? There's layers upon layers of inconvenience for both! Vehicles have to be registered. Prescriptions have national databases that track people. Nice try though.

Yeah. Went to the Dr Mon, prescription beat me to the pharmacy.

Never bought a car and needed a background check.

Want to compare death stats on cars vs guns? Or for that matter, cars vs drugs?

 

[Dirthog67]

Do you have the same standard for a car? How about a prescription? For a knife?

That abused wife, does she need to live in fear for a week?

If it's a week, why not 2? Why not have to have a psych exam? How about wait for ATF to come check your storage?

Why not?

If it saves JUST ONE LIFE, right?

Nobody buys a car to kill themselves or anyone else. Prescriptions are already regulated.

People DO buy guns in a moment of crisis and having to wait a week to get that gun DOES save lives. People cool down.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Do you have the same standard for a car? How about a prescription? For a knife?

That abused wife, does she need to live in fear for a week?

If it's a week, why not 2? Why not have to have a psych exam? How about wait for ATF to come check your storage?

Why not?

If it saves JUST ONE LIFE, right?

In, then out, then in ... your message is circuitously and redundantly seeming merely to gin up argument. You have perhaps overstated your manifesto. It's a contentious, multi faceted issue. This 25 page thread is inanely swirling down the drain to and through a forum waste line to some septic wasteland.
ROGER; OUT.

 

[Point Creep]

The good news is there’s just shitpiles of 9mm and .223 ammo available now. Get it while it’s hot! I wish powder and primers would come around. Screw that Gifford org.

 

[Ben Lamb]

This 25 page thread is inanely swirling down the drain to and through a forum waste line to some septic wasteland.

And that's a new sig.

 

[lpcoutdoors]

Do you have the same standard for a car? How about a prescription? For a knife?

That abused wife, does she need to live in fear for a week?

If it's a week, why not 2? Why not have to have a psych exam? How about wait for ATF to come check your storage?

Why not?

If it saves JUST ONE LIFE, right?

You continue to use a common and basic ineffective technique of debate that I learned from the famous Physicist Dr. Sheldon Cooper. Its called reductio absurdum. Though he is a fictional character in a sit-com I learned alot from it and some weaknesses in viewpoints that I carried.

A leader has to play the odds when making decisions. It is not that they cannot see the things you are seeing but lines have to be drawn somewhere. At some points those debates will never end and leaders just finally draw the lines the make the most sense based on the know factors. They do their best, that's often not good enough, but the outcome is not really the measure, or certainly at least the only measure, the logical attempts behind the decisions and actions are.

Its funny, just a minute ago I was discussing with my kids why they have a late start to school today due to ice, not a cancelation of school like yesterday. When we discussed that many families don't have the priviledge of a parent staying home with them and they need the school to keep their kids while they go to work, and when we discussed how school's are financed in our state based on attendance and days in school, made total sense to the 9 and 11 year old and they are now getting ready for school with a great attitude. They also would much rather stay in their jammies and watch YouTube and play video games all day.

You also, sir, brother if I may because listen, I've been hearing you and thinking alot about what you are saying. I've held off alot, because I sure don't want to be some lecturing jack hole, but I'm risking it. Yes, the week for the wife does make a difference, of course it does, time creates options, whether those options are taken or not. And why not two, sure fine, whatever. And why not have a psych exam, sure fine whatever. I'm licensed to give them, would be good business, I'd enjoy them because I'd get to talk about guns and mental health at the same time. And guess what, I'd know who'd pass and who wouldn't, in most cases, before I even closed the office door, and guess who else would know that, probably you and or most people. But you know what, what would really matter if that was how it was done, which by the way, I don't even think or even want, I'm just running with your example. The people who wouldn't even try because of that requirement, that would be the point, that's who it would matter for.

And sure ATF can come check my storage, because if that was a law, then the lawmakers that you agree with would, or should, make sure there'd be a standard on how quick they get that done for ya, just like there are with the great many things in life that works like that. You know why I have to get a fire marshal inspection, and have had to wait a few days to start businesses many times? Because before that whole freaking cities burned down because of cows kicking over lanterns. We have all of this stuff for reasons, and generally its so that other mistakes, or accidents, don't burn my house down. Don't I have a right to not have my house burned down because of somone else's cow?

And also, again, yes, sure why not if it saves just one life. Why not?

But go ahead and take it to extremes that I or no one else is suggesting, advocating for, or talking about. That is how you keep things from ever getting done, and that is how you keep your stimulation system going. I wish would could get things done by firing up that stimulation system on things that make stuff better.

Dang I've been trying not to lecture or diatribe. I really am sorry and really would rather not.

And I really am glad though that we are wondering and wrestling with life, together, well because......tagline below.

 

[BuzzH]

Can't say


^Bolded is undeniable. When I heard that story of the CA black instahunter fella from Big Fin's podcast getting told he's not welcome around there at a trailhead while bear hunting in MT, my first thought was it's not all that surprising if it was in NW MT.

Not going to engage in the gun debate but will weigh in on nw Montana having lived there for 30 years of my life in regard to this.

I thought the exact same thing as Wind Gypsy when I listened to that same podcast. Anyone that doesn't believe there is a strong white supremacist bent in that part of Montana is blind, in denial, or just plumb full of shit.

There have been white supremacist rallies, marches, etc in that nw part of Montana for a long time in Kalispell, superior, t-falls, etc.

I saw all kinds of white supremacist propaganda stapled to power poles, at rest areas, pullouts on the highways on trees, etc. Real fun day was when I got back to my government vehicle, and had a Nazi pamphlet under the windshield wiper.

That part of NW Montana absolutely is the only place I've seen that kind of bullshit...and I've spent a lot of time working and playing in a large swath of the interior West. Racism is alive and well in the Idaho panhandle and NW Montana...FACT.