Ryan Busse. Anyone?

[hossblur]

Not a huge fan of NRA.

After BHA signed on to public land development for "renewables", I dropped them as well.

Can anyone explain how the green decoy, or wolves in sheep clothes, wasn't pretty correct with Ryan.

I don't know him. Never met him. But.....




"‘Gunfight’ Author Rings the Alarm About Gun Culture in the United States - Flathead Beacon" https://flatheadbeacon.com/2022/01/...alarm-about-gun-culture-in-the-united-states/

 

[tjones]

I thought by now everyone had figured out the green decoy nonsense.

BHA and the green decoys

Been reading a lot on the funding for BHA and it does not look good. From what little I saw they are funded by very anti hunting sources. I support their mission and love me some public lands but after a quick internet search I'm left scratching my head. Does BHA stand for hunters or are they a...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[LuketheDog]

Well, he is wearing a Patagonia hat in the article picture...

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Definitely an interesting transition from gun industry executive to the most favorite darling of every anti-gun activist in the country…..

 

[Gerald Martin]

Can anyone explain how the green decoy, or wolves in sheep clothes, wasn't pretty correct with Ryan.

I don't know him. Never met him. But.....

Is the path of correct thinking about gun ownership and the culture surrounding it so narrow that someone who calls attention to excesses within that culture must be suspect?

I know Ryan. He and I have had several conversations on topics that we agree and also on topics that we disagree. IMO, his positions on some issues are correct. His positions on others are wrong.

All of us allow our perceptions and experiences to shape the direction of where we express ourselves politically and who we support. Ryan Busse’s experiences with gun industry leadership and GOP legislators have influenced him to view Democrats as being the best avenue for affecting change on issues that matter to him. He doesn’t try to hide that.

Is he more partisan than I am personally comfortable with? Yes. Is he working on some nefarious schemes to ensure that our guns are taken away? Absolutely not.

From my perspective, I would WAAY rather live as neighbors to Ryan Busse than Wayne LaPierre.

Ryan is the guy that I would argue with vehemently about social issues over coffee and would walk away knowing that if my family had a need, he would be there to do whatever he could.

From my perspective, I would ask why we should try to call into question the validity of his experiences and besmirch his personal motivations rather than addressing the real issues of the how gun culture in America is not always patriotic or healthy for protecting our freedom?

I guess it’s easier to eliminate the canary than it is to get clean air in the coal shaft.

 

[hossblur]

Is the path of correct thinking about gun ownership and the culture surrounding it so narrow that someone who calls attention to excesses within that culture must be suspect?

I know Ryan. He and I have had several conversations on topics that we agree and also on topics that we disagree. IMO, his positions on some issues are correct. His positions on others are wrong.

All of us allow our perceptions and experiences to shape the direction of where we express ourselves politically and who we support. Ryan Busse’s experiences with gun industry leadership and GOP legislators have influenced him to view Democrats as being the best avenue for affecting change on issues that matter to him. He doesn’t try to hide that.

Is he more partisan than I am personally comfortable with? Yes. Is he working on some nefarious schemes to ensure that our guns are taken away? Absolutely not.

From my perspective, I would WAAY rather live as neighbors to Ryan Busse than Wayne LaPierre.

Ryan is the guy that I would argue with vehemently about social issues over coffee and would walk away knowing that if my family had a need, he would be there to do whatever he could.

From my perspective, I would ask why we should try to call into question the validity of his experiences and besmirch his personal motivations rather than addressing the real issues of the how gun culture in America is not always patriotic or healthy for protecting our freedom?

I guess it’s easier to eliminate the canary than it is to get clean air in the coal shaft.

My dad was an alcoholic. Dried out when I was a younger, never touched the stuff the rest of his life.

Went to a few meetings with him.

We talked a lot while driving to hunts, etc about that lifestyle.

The most obnoxious people I've seen, were in those meetings(a small minority). It wasn't enough that they changed their life, repaired relationships, etc. They were now loud aggressive "evangelists".

I don't know Ryan, figured some here would. I didn't cast judgement either. And no I won't read the book unless it's in my library.

But I do know Kimber. I also know that the 1911, is second only to the AR for tactical parts, pieces, upgrades. It would be fair to say it has fulfilled the warrior fantasies of a lot of dudes. And Ryan as I've read, was not just some low level dude.

He made his living selling that "fantasy".

It doesn't seem unfair to question a guy who did that, did it so well, that he won industry awards, yet now is writing books pointing fingers.

As a one time BHA member, we were asked to expand our circles. Expand our groups. Embrace Yvon, despite Patagonia. Embrace Land, despite his public politics. Reach out to the groups we agree with sometimes. But it's a pretty big ask, to embrace someone who isn't just not wild about a plastic gun, but who also embraces national registration.Nor to look at a group in which he was not just in leadership, but a very vocal member, with a little scrutiny.

I'm not a member, but I've tried to maintain that big tent idea.

I doubt you or I make enough to live in Wayne's neighborhood.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Selling some fantasies are more harmful than others…

FWP’s marketing of 6x6 bull elk as a reality for the masses comes to mind as selling fantasy that doesn’t have as much potential for dire consequences as does marketing cigarettes to impressionable teenagers for example.


Doesn’t the conversation shift at some point to ask the question, “Are there parts of our culture that are harmful and counterproductive to our stated goals? How can we point them out and demand better from the people who claim to represent our interests?”

 

[Gerald Martin]

I doubt you or I make enough to live in Wayne's neighborhood.

Reckon Ole Wayne would mind if I lived next door to him and practiced my cowboy action shooting in my backyard at all hours of the day, or ripped through a few thousand rounds of 5.56 with my bump-stocked AR in preparation for the coming Zombie Appocolypse?
Also, I would expect him to appreciate our anarchistic fringe BLM gatherings that call for us to use weapons as visual reminders that we can and will be violent if we deem it necessary to advance our cause and protect our interests.

I think Ole Wayne and I could be besties.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Admittedly, I am casting aspersions on Wayne LaPierre based on my perceptions of how I view him from his public persona and personal actions that have been made public.

He might be the nicest neighbor in the world and a great guy.

Personally, I believe the approach that the NRA and some gun companies have taken with combining 2nd Amendment protection and fear/fantasy based marketing to drive guns sales to advance profits, has undermined the stability of our freedoms by alienating a lot of people who aren’t in their targeted marketing demographic.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

I agree with most of your points. I can definitely appreciate the perspective of someone who actually knows the individual. However, I believe taking up shop with Giffords Org as a senior advisor would put him in the center of efforts toward national gun registration and limiting second amendment rights as much as possible. They use California as the gold standard and shining example of successful gun crime prevention and safety implementation, seems a bit misplaced.

 

[hossblur]

Admittedly, I am casting aspersions on Wayne LaPierre based on my perceptions of how I view him from his public persona and personal actions that have been made public.

He might be the nicest neighbor in the world and a great guy.

Keep in mind I'm at my daughter's robot tournament, in which there are 40 teams that each drive for 1min. 6 rounds, then championships after

I'll be frequently in several forums today.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I agree with most of your points. I can definitely appreciate the perspective of someone who actually knows the individual. However, I believe taking up shop with Giffords Org as a senior advisor would put him in the center of efforts toward national gun registration and limiting second amendment rights as much as possible. They use California as the gold standard and shining example of successful gun crime prevention and safety implementation, seems a bit misplaced.

Critique of actions taken and stated goals of associated groups are certainly fair game, IMO.

None of us are free from scrutiny of our actions.

 

[hossblur]

Selling some fantasies are more harmful than others…

FWP’s marketing of 6x6 bull elk as a reality for the masses comes to mind as selling fantasy that doesn’t have as much potential for dire consequences as does marketing cigarettes to impressionable teenagers for example.


Doesn’t the conversation shift at some point to ask the question, “Are there parts of our culture that are harmful and counterproductive to our stated goals? How can we point them out and demand better from the people who claim to represent our interests?”

If we do so honestly.

I'd argue Ut, Wy, Id are 3of the most highly armed states in the country. If what the groups Ryan is now advocating for, were right, Evanston Wyoming, would be Chicago.

I'm fine examining cultural issues, as long as all parts of the culture are free to examine.

Second. I doubt highly, Ryan will change a single mind, with his new group on his resume. Any more than the NRA will the other side.

The understanding is in the middle, not on the poles

 

[LuketheDog]

Has Busse finished making his money in the firearms industry and is looking for the next income pipeline selling books and being a political consultant, or does he actually believe what he's selling? Just taking my cues from his cherry-picked quotes in the article he seems to be latching onto the extreme interpretations of gun culture and not the center/norm, it's easy to bend any narrative you want if you do that. I do have a bit of a problem with people who suddenly become evangelists after they've made their money too, I don't know enough to say Busse is living the high life somewhere, but I'd be willing to bet he's doing ok. Take Yvon Chouniard as a prime example, who is worth between $1-2 billion dollars, whose company relies hugely on Asian labor and the petroleum industry for materials, and who preaches at US to save the environment. I quit buying anything Yvon sells...probably won't buy Busse's book either.

 

[hossblur]

So

Selling some fantasies are more harmful than others…

FWP’s marketing of 6x6 bull elk as a reality for the masses comes to mind as selling fantasy that doesn’t have as much potential for dire consequences as does marketing cigarettes to impressionable teenagers for example.


Doesn’t the conversation shift at some point to ask the question, “Are there parts of our culture that are harmful and counterproductive to our stated goals? How can we point them out and demand better from the people who claim to represent our interests?”

The expo is in SLC right now. Lots of fantasy selling going on

 

[Gerald Martin]

If we do so honestly.

I'd argue Ut, Wy, Id are 3of the most highly armed states in the country. If what the groups Ryan is now advocating for, were right, Evanston Wyoming, would be Chicago.

I'm fine examining cultural issues, as long as all parts of the culture are free to examine.

Second. I doubt highly, Ryan will change a single mind, with his new group on his resume. Any more than the NRA will the other side.

The understanding is in the middle, not on the poles

Are there enough in the middle to examine the critiques of the industry and gun culture that Ryan brings as a former industry insider and unapologetic gun owner?

Ryan is counting on his time in the industry to give him credibility to bring criticism without being automatically marginalized as a fringe anti-gun activist.

Right now, I am sure there a plenty of anti-gun activists who are salivating over how they can leverage his criticism to advance their goals.

Right now, I am sure there are plenty of folks in the gun industry who are looking for ways to marginalize Busse and his criticisms and leverage that to their advantage.

Are there enough folks in the middle to sort through what’s accurate and what’s hyperbole on all sides of the debate and move the discussion and policies in a healthy direction?

Whatever people think about Ryan Busse, it takes courage to counter what has passed for accepted behavior and thought on controversial issues, within “your tribe”.

 

[Gerald Martin]

So


The expo is in SLC right now. Lots of fantasy selling going on

Reminds me. I need to go buy a bunch of those $5 chances for 200 tags to fund Don Peay and SFW’s vision of wildlife management for the sake of conservation.


At least those guys aren’t “Green Decoys”.

 

[hossblur]

Are there enough in the middle to examine the critiques of the industry and gun culture that Ryan brings as a former industry insider and unapologetic gun owner?

Ryan is counting on his time in the industry as giving him credibility to bring criticism without being automatically marginalized as a fringe anti-gun activist.

Right now, I am sure there a plenty of anti-gun activists who are salivating over how they can leverage his criticism to advance their goals.

Right now, I am sure there are plenty of folks in the gun industry who are looking for ways to marginalize Busse and his criticisms and leverage that to their advantage.

Are there enough folks in the middle to sort through what’s accurate and what’s hyperbole on all sides of the debate and move the discussion and policies in a healthy direction?

Whatever people think about Ryan Busse, it takes courage to counter what has passed for accepted behavior and thought on controversial issues, within “your tribe”.

I hope your right.

Sometimes compensation replaces courage.

I've still never figured out what this "gun culture" is.

I'll assume I'm part, though my side hammer muzzy, contradicts my AR, I imagine.

Honest brokers on these issues are hard to find, at least publically

 

[hossblur]

Reminds me. I need to go buy a bunch of those $5 chances for 200 tags to fund Don Peay and SFW’s vision of wildlife management for the sake of conservation.


At least those guys aren’t “Green Decoys”.

Utah is "the Serengeti of the West", thanks to $fw efforts.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I hope your right.

Sometimes compensation replaces courage.

I've still never figured out what this "gun culture" is.

I'll assume I'm part, though my side hammer muzzy, contradicts my AR, I imagine.

Honest brokers on these issues are hard to find, at least publically

If it is up to the middle to move these issues then how “honest” the brokers are isn’t the biggest concern.

Shouldn’t we be able to sort through the arguments and criticisms and form our own conclusions because we possess wisdom and strong moral character?

Or have we abdicated our own responsibilities to the point we rely on “trustworthy sources” to tell us what we should think?