MT residents thoughts on Steve Bullock

[RockyMtnMT]

That's called the Montana paradox. It's like partisanship, I don't have an answer for it.

It takes a certain level of selfishness and hypocrisy to get yours and try to keep others from doing the same. Shameful really.

 

[mottlet]

Unless you think the goats will get run over on the road, a road here vs there is the same. Nobody explained to the goats in GNP that the people on the road are not working so it is ok.

If you believe that, I doubt anybody here, even with all the objective science in the world differentiating between a road in a national park and a mine, will influence you. But I don't think you believe it. I think you're just on the internet, having a good time.

 

[Big Fin]

I would suggest that anyone who hasn't already done so, go read the six points in Post #1 of this thread. Today, I'm in less of a mood for the tags and labels than I was when I posted that thread three years ago.

Time for some to go elsewhere

I've been traveling a ton this year. I just got back early this morning from another gig and took a few hours to just review some of the threads that seem to be the most corrosive. Those threads have some commonalities. 1. They usually have zero relevance to a public land hunting forum. 2...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[onpoint]

I think you're just on the internet, having a good time.
Nailed it. Whether it's Native American Treaty law, Polltics, Bullock for Pres, whatever - this forum has become less about Public Lands/Hunt Talk and more about trash talk.
Lotsa' long time regulars are no longer regulars. Wonder why.
tjones (ie) posted pics of a downed bull elk with little fanfare, yet always showed up for sportsman's issues as a steadfast common sense voice.
Not much of that on this site anymore, except for guys like StraightArrow (kudos) trying helplessly to counter guys like Syte's senseless drivel.
Use to be an interesting site Randy.
Good Luck.

Guys like Buzz and other "Gov't hacks" on this site have busted ass attempting to provide, conserve and enhance various public resources so Punk Whiners like mtgomer have something to bitch about.
And oh yeah, GeraldMartin is called a leftist - great stuff.....................................................................................................................................

 

[RockyMtnMT]

If you believe that, I doubt anybody here, even with all the objective science in the world differentiating between a road in a national park and a mine, will influence you. But I don't think you believe it. I think you're just on the internet, having a good time.

This is quite painful, really. Help me out and explain the difference between the paved rd through GNP and a paved rd to a mine.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Don't give me any of the fake science like grizzly bears won't cross a road therefore every rd developed cuts their range.

 

[Gerald Martin]

This is quite painful, really. Help me out and explain the difference between the paved rd through GNP and a paved rd to a mine.

. Ever hear of winter range? I am allowed to ride my snowmobile in the woods around town and the elk and deer are fine. I should be able to ride the Sun River Game Range in March if I wanna.

 

[Gerald Martin]

#bulletsandroadsareallthesame

 

[Gerald Martin]

Based on your posts, I get the impression you believe everyone’s idea of success should be equally accommodated and be allowed to be pursued regardless of the effects. ????

It’s been a growing dream of mine to develop several joint business ventures on one property. You wouldn’t mind if I start my free range wolf farm/ low fence, nuisance grizzly
rehabilitation center/ sewage treatment center on the property next to you would you? . If it doesn’t work out, I will have to walk away and let the neighbors sort it out. I deserve my shot at the American Dream as I see it.

Stepping back from the edge of ridiculousness.... are you unconvinced there exists a high likelihood of those goats dying or are you willing to count that as acceptable cost for progress?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I don't think they will die. You are banking on maybe they will. Only logical answer I can come up with for them to fire is getting run over, poaching due to easier access or the minute number of tags issued will be more easily harvested. None of which seem likely.

Winter range? Really? The road and mine site well be located in the only spot where winter browse is available? C'mon.

 

[mottlet]

This is quite painful, really. Help me out and explain the difference between the paved rd through GNP and a paved rd to a mine.

Nah, that's the sort of thing that sorta explains itself; I'm done with it. In the meantime, just sent a donation to Gov. Bullock's campaign in your honor.

 

[MTGomer]

Looking at goat population data of native, western MT herds and the lack of action on the topic, I’m not sure I see why the State of Montana would care.
At the trajectory they’re on, they’ll be the woodland caribou soon.

 

[Sytes]

If Bullock ran with mightier than thou witticisms versus the reasonable debate and conversations, he sure as hell would not receive my vote, as an Independent. Thankfully, that is not the case.

As mentioned sometime back, I think he's the best of the twenty some-odd Democrats vying for their nomination.

Unfortunately, in this forum, there are patch groups of people. If you're not singing their songs and (or) if you have a different opinion, well chit! You're not a reasonable person in their book. Thus pressure should be applied to remove those who do not listen to their sermon. Meh.

The end game here is the value, or lack of value Bullock has given to Montana - more specifically, outdoor activities. I think he's done a decent job... in this area and crappy in others. I voted for him and Schweitzer throughout their times.

Heavily hammered unemployment counties need quality jobs. Mining & lumber mills, etc

There is give and take. We love our toys... They are made with raw materials that we have available to extract. Overgrowth that needs to be logged and the workers ready to work...
Montana families in these hard hit areas are constantly pleading for the employment so they may financially enjoy the outdoors as well.

For sake of Bullock, DEQ and MSHA standards are met while preserving gainful employment. There is a balance point that kicks the extreme environmentalists to the curb and makes the most of corporate regulation / responsible mining.

Outside all that. I've had a blast with many here on Hunt Talk online and in person. Great group of people... for the most part.

 

[El Jason]

The attitude surrounding resource extraction is far closer to " I don't really care about the environmental costs, show me the money" than most conservatives are comfortable accepting. The attitudes surrounding resource preservation and "environmentalism" are far closer to "No resource extraction/molestation of Mother Earth is ever acceptable," than many progressives would like to admit.

We like to view complex issues in simple terms that make it easy to label and caricature someone who holds a different viewpoint than us or accepts the label of a different tribe. I wonder if either side would be happy seeing the logical consequences that would follow unhindered implementation of their world view?

@Gerald Martin did a wonderful job of articulating my thoughts on this issue. We don't live in a vacuum, and in "getting mine", I stand a good chance of infringing upon someone else's established livelihood and/or quality of life. There are examples abound of economic windfalls having a profound impact on people and/or the environment. Is it worth it? I don't think there is a black and white answer. One of my nephews makes a very good living working at the Stillwater Mine, despite only a high school diploma. Another is making a very good living in the gas fields of the Wind River Basin. I'm happy for them, but their industries certainly have impacts on wildlife, water quality, air quality, and someone else's quality of life.

@375H&H referenced the economic prosperity strip mining and a coal fired power plant brought to SE Montana. Without a doubt, Rosebud County benefited from this. However, some folks have paid a price, and have had to fight long and hard to keep the mine and plant from impacting their livelihood.

PPL Montana, Rosebud Protective Association weigh in on proposed EPA coal ash regs

PPL Montana and an environmental group agree that coal ash from power plants should be regulated, but they differ on which option under consideration by the Environmental Protection Agency is

billingsgazette.com

The proposed Otter Creek coal mine and Tongue River Railroad posed serious threats to agricultural interests. The Northern Plains Resource Council fought this for years. But wait, aren't they keeping others from "getting theirs"?

Tongue River Railroad – Winning Against Long Odds | WORC

I used to spend a lot of time on the upper reaches of Belt Creek, near the Hughesville and Barker mine sites. The creek is finally healthy again. After all, clean water is necessary for someone to be a "broke dick fishing guide". Or, maybe the clean water supports a fishery that enhances the quality of life for folks like Big Sky, who contributed economically, professionally, and personally for years to a small community in Montana.

And then, there are those foolish road closures in places like the Gravelly Range, that helped create on of the most robust elk herds on public land in Montana. Ask @onpoint how the elk hunting was there in the early 90's. Road closures aren't a blanket prescription, but this is one example of how it created public land opportunity for the folks in the Madison Valley and beyond. Did the road closures impact locals? I'm certain some folks lost the opportunity to use the land like the used to. I'm certain others greatly enjoy the enhanced elk hunting.

A certain Republican ex-senator in Montana petitioned for a county road closure that led to loss of public road access to thousands of acres of BLM and DNR lands. It certainly helped his personal outfitting business. In the course of "getting his", he greatly altered the public's ability to use a resource that also belonged to them.

The examples of resource misuse are endless. In no way does that mean we shouldn't develop, mine, extract, cut and mill, etc. It just means we damned well better take a look at history when we make these decisions.

Edit: Disclaimer in that none of this directly relates the quality of Bullock's presidential candidacy. And, I neither give two shits how someone does or may categorize me, nor do I find any value in doing so to others.

 

[Sytes]

The examples of resource misuse are endless. In no way does that mean we shouldn't develop, mine, extract, cut and mill, etc. It just means we damned well better take a look at history when we make these decisions.

Value anyone should be able to absorb.

 

[TwistedSage]

This thread started as pretty objective assessments of the subject candidate. It was educational for me as someone who doesnt follow MT politics but wants to be informed on presidential candidates.

I dont affiliate with either party and the state of partisan politic theatrics in this country about make me sick.

The only thing I can really add to this conversation is this.. if we as Americans are willing to ignore all of the faults of our chosen party if only because they oppose the other side we all lose.

That's how a lot of these career politicians are able to stay in for 30 or more years. They promise they are the only ones that can fight the other side and fix the issues. Neither side does shit. 2 sides of the same coin. I bet after the cameras leave Lindsey Graham and Chuck Schumer shake hands toast beers and say "oh man we really got them going now, good show, till next time bud"

 

[Sytes]

Theodore Roosevelt called it, Boss Party Corruption.
Edit added: On review/to clarify, TR's thoughts on "Boss Party corruption" involves the mutual two party's interest of Democrat and Republican party over the people. The Bosses of the two parties create the environment that internally promulgates - in a simple manner, the setting you describe below.

Neither side does shit. 2 sides of the same coin. I bet after the cameras leave Lindsey Graham and Chuck Schumer shake hands toast beers and say "oh man we really got them going now, good show, till next time bud"

 

[shoots-straight]

I have sat down and interviewed (then Attorney General) Bullock. I found him down to earth, open, intelligent, and very respectful to those of us that were in the room that day. He answered some tough questions that day and came out on top as far as our organization was concerned. (Montana Sportsmen's Alliance).

We chose to endorse him after that meeting, based on his stance on public lands, his treatment of sportsmen, and the people he surrounded himself with.

I will have no problem voting for him again.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I will have no problem voting for him again.

Nor will I. Steve Bullock served Montana as Attorney General, then as a strong Governor. He knows, thoroughly understands, and feels sincerely about Montana's issues. His decisions and actions bear that out.

Governor Bullock has been a strong leader with regard to public lands and access. He appointed a Montana Outdoor Recreation director to promote and protect recreation on public lands. His administration initiated a DNRC Public Access Specialist position and an Access Acquisition Specialist position. Bullock was the primary cheerleader and emphatic speaker at the Public Land Rallys at the Capitol in Helena. He often loudly asserted, "Keep public lands in public hands!" Transfer of federal public lands? "Not during my watch!"

Governor Bullock adamantly supported and protected the private property rights of ranchers and landowners to pursue and successfully complete the lengthy, stringent Montana FWP conservation easement process to provide benefits to ranching, wildlife, wildlife habitat, and public access.

Postscript note: Steve Bullock, as Montanan, Attorney General, and Governor has absolutely no responsibility in the tragic, decades-old twentieth century downturn in the economy of Lincoln County. Au contraire, his administration has been supportive of efforts to bolster the economy of Lincoln County, Libby in particular.

 

[noharleyyet]

Too bad the dems are trotting out another batch of 2nd worst candidates ever and shouting down any candidate resembling a moderate. I would've voted for a Bullock in '16.