BuzzH
Well-known member
Funny how a forced elk reintroduction in MI, KY, PA, etc. etc. isn't a bad thing...
Hard to tell the difference between SFW and RMEF these days.
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Schaaf
Well-known member
The squirrel population will never recover
WalkingBird
Active member
I think this is a good thing for Idaho and the west as a whole in regards to the wolf debate. Yes it shows a huge amount of wolves in the state and that number is many times more than the Minimum as set by the feds years ago, but, it also provides a way to provide proof rather than speculation at those numbers. This is especially so with the use of this same technique being used for ungulates and then compared to the main technique utilized across the west, aerial surveys. The fight against wolves is not in the hands of wildlife managers, but in the courts, and now rather than providing the answers for management, wildlife agencies are now utilized to provide evidence
Gerald Martin
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You reckon they are gonna get a wolf’s consent before they force him to relocate?
#BBWolfwasframed #Grannyhaditcoming
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
My thoughts as well.
FI460
Well-known member
Was it illegal that they used a non- native subspecies? The Rocky mountain elk, with its drastically superior antlers, aka the Canadian super elk?
Just got an email from RMEF about the state of the organization. Pardon me if I laugh when compared to SFW, whether the topic be Colorado ballot initiatives, wolves, access, habitat, or whatever.
A lot can get done with 12,000 amazing volunteers, generous donors, support from private industry, passionate members, and by partnering with other conservation groups and agencies.
Carry on........
A lot can get done with 12,000 amazing volunteers, generous donors, support from private industry, passionate members, and by partnering with other conservation groups and agencies.
Carry on........
Schaaf
Well-known member
I do remember them advocating for increased wolf harvest and methods of take during the 2019 session alongside MT SFW.
I also remember them being noticeably absent from the elk management legislation that increased the elk harvest in Montana.
Hunters, Trappers Take Aim At Limiting Montana's Wolf Population
A meeting about Montana’s wolf population turned testy Wednesday night in Kalispell.At one point, a man stood up amidst the sea of green camo, flannel and…
www.mtpr.org
I also remember them being noticeably absent from the elk management legislation that increased the elk harvest in Montana.
D
Deleted member 20812
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Sounds similar to the ag community’s view on elk.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
By any chance did that email include anything regarding shoulder seasons? I mean it is rocky mountain ELK foundation.
Nope, it didn't.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
This has been debunked numerous times (if read as these aren't the "same" wolves, like the current YNP wolves came from a different planet). Even if we give it more credit that it deserves, genetic variations do not mean they are non-native. White deer vary significantly from region to region, and we create "sub-species" based on size, weight, region, etc., but they are not alien to each other. Most variations (size and weight especially) are driven by the environment. A canadian whitetail put in Arkansas may have trouble coping with the heat while a Arkansas white tail placed in Canada will have trouble with winters. Most people accept that prarie wolves were gerenally smaller than their northern cousins, but Lewis and Clark noted they constantly shadowed buffalo and elk herds, so I'm not sure if there is a real argument to make on this. It is possible that the environment will cause the population to gravitate to its natural historical characteristics through natural selection. The will tell.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Focus on wolves...do jack nothing about lions.
In spite of the science...
In spite of the science...
IDFG are working towards a better understanding of wolf numbers vs the current setting. Now, ID is aiming for the most accurate # of wolves possible to better "manage" the population. Problem with the prior setting is the open ended assumption of the wolf population based on minimal count + some to assure US FWS is satisfied. Nothing wrong with the #'s in the RMEF article provided.
I do remember them advocating for increased wolf harvest and methods of take during the 2019 session alongside MT SFW.
Hunters, Trappers Take Aim At Limiting Montana's Wolf Population
A meeting about Montana’s wolf population turned testy Wednesday night in Kalispell.At one point, a man stood up amidst the sea of green camo, flannel and…www.mtpr.org
I also remember them being noticeably absent from the elk management legislation that increased the elk harvest in Montana.
RMEF was against the elk shoulder season resolution, and they were opposed to the unlimited extra license bill before we were able to change it to one extra B tag. I may disagree with my friends at RMEF about large carnivore management, but I think they do deserve some credit for standing up against the legsialture here. RMEF also has been a leader in bringing various legislators together through the sportsman's caucus & sporting advisory council, which also opposed the elk bills as they were originally written.
Pa had elk until the 1860s then we got 50 from Wyoming around 1913
Gerald Martin
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I was at the last meeting in Trout Creek. Glen and a bunch of other likeminded predator haters were out in force advocating for two bear tags, a return for open quotas on lions, and year round seasons on wolves.I do remember them advocating for increased wolf harvest and methods of take during the 2019 session alongside MT SFW.
Hunters, Trappers Take Aim At Limiting Montana's Wolf Population
A meeting about Montana’s wolf population turned testy Wednesday night in Kalispell.At one point, a man stood up amidst the sea of green camo, flannel and…www.mtpr.org
I also remember them being noticeably absent from the elk management legislation that increased the elk harvest in Montana.
Rep. Bob Brown spoke against wolves and in favor of shoulder seasons highlighting his recent experience in one of the 500 series units where he filled his cow tag in a day and a half and saw over 500 head of elk. Clearly there are too many elk ....
I wonder what private ranch gave him exclusive access???Biologist Bruce Sterling gave the elk kill estimates for unit 121 from 2018 . Almost 80% of the bull kill consisted of 3-5 point 2 1/2 year old rag horns.
Wolves are definitely having an effect in this area as to how elk are distributed with the majority of elk now living on private land in the valley where hunters kill nearly every bull as soon as it grows a brow time.
Every diatribe against wolves was met with jeers and cheers but there was stony silence when I spoke up and noted that we are predators too and blaming wolves when hunters are pulling the trigger on the every legal bull wasn’t going to bring back good elk hunting to this area.
Thirteen public land outfitters in Sanders County....The two largest book over 100 hunters a year. Increased development of winter range and ever more efficient hunting technology....
Bull to cow ratios of 8/100....
Angry hunters who don’t realize that going outside the management boundaries set by the state could cost us all opportunities to keep wolf numbers in check .... Guys harken back to the good old days when the settlers exterimated the wolves (and the deer and elk) because they knew what was best.
Stinking wolves!
Stinky Democrats!!!!Outrage is produced cheaply and efficiently here in Sanders County. It’s a great time to be a (duck) hunter.
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Gerald Martin
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Not all lions share the same preference of prey. Elk make up a significant or majority of a lion’s diet in some areas. In other areas they don’t.
In the regions around Trout Creek whitetail deer have historically been the major food source of lions. A study done in the Bitterroot where there aren’t a high number of whitetails isn’t going to be reflective of all areas.
In this area lions, bears, elk and deer all coexisted in relative balance.
With the dispersal of wolves traveling down naturally from Canada joining with reintroduced wolves and their highly successful reproduction, elk have
changed their preferred areas. Just in the past 15 years we have observed what used to be small herds scattered throughout all the surrounding mountains congregating into larger herds on private land on the valley floor. By and large wolves do not follow them down since hunting and trapping has been allowed.
However, hunters have been decimating the bull population during hunting season as soon as they grow enough antler to be legal and venture onto land that allows hunting.
This terrain is heavily timbered and heavily roaded and fair chase hunting methods will never do more than offer a semblance of “managing” wolf numbers.
IMO, the “good old days “ from the mid 90’s till about 2008 were a historic anomaly in the past several hundred years and that kind of elk hunting will never be seen again in my lifetime.
I know the regional reality of this area isn’t the same as other areas in MT. I understand the frustration and dissatisfaction many local hunters have with the current state of affairs however all their rage and indignation isn’t going to fundamentally change reality.
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