Corner Crossing Update

[Nunjagottam]

Had a MT FWP officer tell me yesterday that it IS illegal in Montana. I asked him to show me the code annotated. Said in the event of a corner cross case he just defers it to the county attorney and it’s at their discretion… he agreed we’d all like to see it legalized, though…

This is a real problem with our "rank and file" law enforcement. These guys just puke out what their supervisor says is "law"
I had a spirited phone conversation with a county deputy calling from outside his jurisdiction to threaten criminal charges based on some bullshit range laws. After providing him with the recorded covenants for the properties in question he forwarded them to the County attorney and promptly called back to inform me that it was in fact, a civil matter. (Thanks buddy, I knew that)
Anymore these guys wearing badges feel they can brow-beat the public with policy rather than honor our constitutional process for resolution. Or, maybe they feel pressure to enforce their supervisors "interpretation" of the law. Regardless, its a slippery slope and we need to stand firm on this issue.
In America you absolutely can, unless law dictates specifically that you cannot. It really is that simple.
Authoritarians, you may now clutch your pearls...

 

[shoots-straight]

It'd be cool to see some real Independent candidates gain traction on the state level. The Rs will never get my vote again after their Property tax "fix"
The Ds are a tough pill to swallow (insert joke here) but if a candidate is willing to make public lands a hill to die on they're probably gonna get my vote. Unfortunately land access is far down on most politicians list of to-dos.

"Well down the list" for your children's heritage is not down my list. It better be moved up the list and voters can make that happen. I'm afraid the "Ho Hum" metric of past, aint going to cut in the next cycle.

 

[Dan O]

In Montana this talk aka argument here is not going to settle anything. It will take a corner crossing (trespass charge) to go to court. If found guilty then an appeal to the MT supreme court. From there it depends on how much money you can raise to push the issue.

The big question is who is willing to step up and push their beliefs? Relying on the MTF&G to do the right thing I think would be a very long wait.

 

[Rack Daniels]

I think a ton of us are prepared but weary of the nuances creating a perfect case in our favor. Almost need a lawyer with us to do the corner crossing. but then, would it even make it to court like we hope it DOES? Like I told the FWP officer when he said the “offender” would be in for all that dough fighting the legal battle— it’s a good thing the BHA footed a ton of the bill with the Missourian’s case

 

[Carnage2011]

There are tons of people corner crossing these days in MT. FWP will have the option to write a ticket one of these days…we’ll see how long that takes.

 

[ccc23454]

I think corner crossing as we know it is now a past issue, the wyoming case got enough publicity that its effectively legal now. I think the legal issue next tested is aircraft for transportation, guides will argue things like transporters should be licensed outfitters, airspace rights etc.

 

[seeth07]

I think corner crossing as we know it is now a past issue, the wyoming case got enough publicity that its effectively legal now. I think the legal issue next tested is aircraft for transportation, guides will argue things like transporters should be licensed outfitters, airspace rights etc.

Especially since there are now drones that are getting lower in cost with the ability to carry 250# loads. Im sure there is someone planning a fall trip with one of these to take them in from a public road and land on a river or blm road where access isn't available

 

[MTGunner]

I think corner crossing as we know it is now a past issue, the wyoming case got enough publicity that its effectively legal now. I think the legal issue next tested is aircraft for transportation, guides will argue things like transporters should be licensed outfitters, airspace rights etc.

Once there are outfitters involved it nothing more than a $$$$ issue for another cluster “F” that the outfitters can take advantage of.
I have hired outfitters but there is no end to what the industry will clamor for new revenue.
The hunting of my youth is no more. It will be the sport of the rich if outfitters can put more $$$$ in politicians pockets. My rant! MTG

 

[shoots-straight]

In Montana this talk aka argument here is not going to settle anything. It will take a corner crossing (trespass charge) to go to court. If found guilty then an appeal to the MT supreme court. From there it depends on how much money you can raise to push the issue.

The big question is who is willing to step up and push their beliefs? Relying on the MTF&G to do the right thing I think would be a very long wait.

I've brought this up to a few (groups, guys, and influencers) who have the means to raise vast cash reserves to do this very thing. You and I think alike here. I had to edit this, as I don't have any takers yet. I'm but a simple man with small reserves myself or I would. (My wife reminds me of this often).

 

[SAJ-99]

I've brought this up to a few (groups, guys, and influencers) who have the means to raise vast cash reserves to do this very thing. You and I think alike here. I had to edit this, as I don't have any takers yet. I'm but a simple man with small reserves myself or I would. (My wife reminds me of this often).

I think you need the right landowner and the right prosecutor (and obviously the right corner). Find that situation and I doubt money would be a problem.

 

[Fatrack]

I think you need the right landowner and the right prosecutor (and obviously the right corner). Find that situation and I doubt money would be a problem.

I've heard this comment several times. I'd like to get a concensus and outline what the "right landowner, right prosecutore and specifically, what a right corner" actually is.

 

[2ski]

It could be done. In a blue county have someone corner cross, have the county attorney charge them at the behest of a friendly landowner. Then find not guilty and appealed to state supreme court and so on.
Would Austen jump in and stop it? My guess is probably. They don't want it to become precedent so they don't want a court case right now. I would bet alot of people are going to turn a blind eye just so it does not go further and become precedent.

 

[SAJ-99]

I've heard this comment several times. I'd like to get a concensus and outline what the "right landowner, right prosecutore and specifically, what a right corner" actually is.

Follow the bouncing ball in the WY case for an example. Corner Crossing isn't defined. Any legal action would be under trespass, criminal and/or civil. The criminal case would require a county prosecutor to initiate the action. I assume it goes to a jury and they give the all clear. The landowner would then need to file the civil action. You need a landowner that thinks they are a BSD and have a right to exclusive access to that public land because of owning the land for X generations and blah, blah, blah. Finding that kind of LO wouldn't be hard, but they need to have deep pockets and willingness to push the case as far as they can. (My view here. Others may disagree) The corner needs to be completely landlocked. I.e., it can't be accessed any other way.

 

[Fatrack]

Follow the bouncing ball in the WY case for an example. Corner Crossing isn't defined. Any legal action would be under trespass, criminal and/or civil. The criminal case would require a county prosecutor to initiate the action. I assume it goes to a jury and they give the all clear. The landowner would then need to file the civil action. You need a landowner that thinks they are a BSD and have a right to exclusive access to that public land because of owning the land for X generations and blah, blah, blah. Finding that kind of LO wouldn't be hard, but they need to have deep pockets and willingness to push the case as far as they can. (My view here. Others may disagree) The corner needs to be completely landlocked. I.e., it can't be accessed any other way.

do you think it matters who manages the public land? ie. corners at blm/state, state/forest, blm/forest, etc.

 

[BuzzH]

I've heard this comment several times. I'd like to get a concensus and outline what the "right landowner, right prosecutore and specifically, what a right corner" actually is.

Fred Eichelman, Ashley Mayfield Davis, and a marked corner on elk mountain...

Combine that with say a quarter million dollars, one access group that has the sportsmen and sportswomen with a spine to back a group of hunters, 4 court cases and there you have it...nothing to it.

Pitter patter...

 

[Stretch866]

Had a MT FWP officer tell me yesterday that it IS illegal in Montana. I asked him to show me the code annotated. Said in the event of a corner cross case he just defers it to the county attorney and it’s at their discretion… he agreed we’d all like to see it legalized, though…

So basically just depends on whos in charge locally and their mood. Nice.

 

[BuzzH]

do you think it matters who manages the public land? ie. corners at blm/state, state/forest, blm/forest, etc.

Yes it matters if you want to apply the UIA.

However, there was nothing in any of the cases that Wyoming brought forward where the courts excluded any type of public lands from their decisions.

I'm no attorney, but I would feel wayyyyy better jumping a federal corner to another federal corner, preferably BLM/BLM.

 

[BuzzH]

So basically just depends on whos in charge locally and their mood. Nice.

Yes, and also what the landowner decides to do. Any landowner with a half a firing brain cell would ignore corner crossing.

 

[Stretch866]

I hunt a lot of upland public and private and you would think ppl would be pretty chill if you arent doing anything wrong but boy do those adjacent farmers like to harass hunters. Just seems to be the vibes these days.

 

[rogerthat]

I know a landowner that would not only try to prosecute you, good chance he would actually try to murder you, no joke. Luckily he is usually pretty busy drunk driving his utv around so as far as I know I have t heard of him having an altercation yet. I bet it’s coming