Clintons plan for public lands

[jzeck2]

I find it very interesting how many people would rather hold on to the conspiracy theories and made for news (and politics) stories about emails and servers than deal with the reality we are faced with. To put it plainly, the Republican Party supports the transfer and privatization of our public lands, I do not believe there is any doubt here. We have one candidate that has published a policy that most of us support if not completely then 90%. But we fall back to the whole nonsense dealing with email servers and who whose spouse is the sleaziest and who had who killed.

And for those that are ready to type a response along the lines of "typical liberal Democrat" go ahead, except I'm not a Democrat and I'm pretty sure I can out fiscally conservative most.

If we want to protect our hunting and outdoor heritage we need to lose the "D" and "R". We need to make decisions based on policy and not the political BS that is manufactured and slung and allowed to stick anywhere it finds a receptive host.

I would encourage (but am not hopeful) that sportsman take the measure of the candidates based on what is truly important to them. Vote based on the things you value not the crap you hear on the internet, TV and radio. In fact we would all be better off if we quit spending so much time glued to our electronic pacifiers and spend more time outdoors doing things that are really important. Volunteer for a conservation organization, take a kid hunting or fishing, pick up some garbage that litters our landscape and haul it out. Do something that makes a difference now and for the future.

 

[hank4elk]

I personally cannot vote in Primaries due to the fact that I am a "Decline To State" voter. Have been for many years.
NM is closed Primary.
BS,I should be able to vote for who I wish,eff the parties.

I had been a R or D once or twice just to vote. Now will not be a member of either party. Neither party represents me.Or cares.
Looks like I will be voting Gary Johnson .
I will never vote or support the Shrill or the Dumpf. And most likely not even recognize them if they do get there.
Heaven help us!

 

[shootbrownelk]

So Hillary is going to call all those landowners blocking access and politely ask that they allow us thru.Does anyone really buy the crap she's selling?Shes a PROVEN disaster so lets make her president of the best country on Earth;really????????

Condemnation or Eminent Domain?

 

[shootbrownelk]

I personally cannot vote in Primaries due to the fact that I am a "Decline To State" voter. Have been for many years.
NM is closed Primary.
BS,I should be able to vote for who I wish.

I had been a R or D once or twice just to vote. Now will not be a member of either party. Neither party represents me.Or cares.
Looks like I will be voting Gary Johnson .
I will never vote or support the Shrill or the Dumpf. And most likely not even recognize them if they do get there.
Heaven help us!

I'm with you Hank. An Independent.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

So.....the integrity of the president has no bearing? Let's be clear, she is under investigation, and the investigation was initiated under a Democrat President, by her own state department's inspector general, the intelligence communities IG, and the FBI. It isn't a conspiracy theory, the reality is that had anyone lower on the totem pole taken the same actions, they would be in jail. The even harder reality, that bothers me the most about the emails, is the careless nature with which she treats information that very likely could have cost American lives. There are thousands of cyber attacks a day against government/military personnel, and she knows that, but apparently couldn't be inconvenienced.

That being said, I am happy she has taken the stance she has, hopefully it further turns the tides in our favor alongside all of the pro-transfer republicans getting their a$$es handed to them by Trump.

 

[noharleyyet]

Condemnation or Eminent Domain?

..and you'd be ok with that?

 

[whiskeydog]

I find it very interesting how many people would rather hold on to the conspiracy theories and made for news (and politics) stories about emails and servers

It's not a conspiracy, and that witch belongs in prison. There is such a double standard that it makes my sick to even think about it. Do a Google search on "Major Jason Brezler", a buddy of mine from college and USMC. He was court-martialed and forced out of the Marines after sending ONE email containing classified info via his personal computer with the hopes of saving a few lives (3 Marines were still killed). Here is just one of the results you'll get in the search:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-sent-warning-ahead-of-insider-attack-upheld/

How can they possibly justify this for him and allow her to possibly be POTUS?! load of crap!

 

[Southwind]

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/brie...ative-stewardship-of-americas-great-outdoors/

With Clinton here is her plans for public lands in America. Trump has yet to release any real plans about them and although his son and even Trump himself has said things in support of public lands, he has also backtracked on those statements a few times. Here is where Clinton stands, and at least we have a plan to know exactly her stand on this issue. Until an actual plan is released from Trump, I'm still a bit skeptical.

Oh we can certainly rely on her word...pft! For a donation to the Clinton Foundation anything is fair game.

 

[Sytes]

So.....the integrity of the president has no bearing? Let's be clear, she is under investigation, and the investigation was initiated under a Democrat President, by her own state department's inspector general, the intelligence communities IG, and the FBI. It isn't a conspiracy theory, the reality is that had anyone lower on the totem pole taken the same actions, they would be in jail. The even harder reality, that bothers me the most about the emails, is the careless nature with which she treats information that very likely could have cost American lives. There are thousands of cyber attacks a day against government/military personnel, and she knows that, but apparently couldn't be inconvenienced.

That being said, I am happy she has taken the stance she has, hopefully it further turns the tides in our favor alongside all of the pro-transfer republicans getting their a$$es handed to them by Trump.

^^ THIS. Saved me from typing. Thanks. Well stated!

 

[jzeck2]

So.....the integrity of the president has no bearing?

If we can lose the "D" and the "R" and look at how many past Sect. of State did the exact same thing I think we should be able to see past the political smoke screen. If we can't do this we deserve exactly what we get and shouldn't whine about it when it happens.

 

[Nemont]

If we can lose the "D" and the "R" and look at how many past Sect. of State did the exact same thing I think we should be able to see past the political smoke screen. If we can't do this we deserve exactly what we get and shouldn't whine about it when it happens.

Can you expand on this? The choices are either a floppy haired, bigoted cartoon character or a humorless, shrill clanging gong. What exactly have we done to "deserve" either of those?

I get the passion everyone has for public lands but is that single issue upon which one can decide is the most important? Ever increasing Debt, never ending wars, Trade Pacts written by and for corporations, a broken health care system headed to real crisis in the next 6 to 12 months, policies that will guarantee that my kids and grand kids will be in basically debt prison for their entire product working lives. Both parties are complicity in these things so what exactly is the difference?

Neither of these two are equipped to deal with any of the looming crisises in a competent way. So why would I vote for either because I dang sure don't fee like I deserve either one of these people to be the president of this great nation, regardless of their position on public lands sell/transfer. Political smoke screen or not Hillary cannot be an effective president because she will be so gut shot by the time the election is over that only buzzards will be circling the White House trying to pick over the corpse of her administration. Trump is as bad or worse because he doesn't get politics at all.

Nemont

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

If we can lose the "D" and the "R" and look at how many past Sect. of State did the exact same thing I think we should be able to see past the political smoke screen. If we can't do this we deserve exactly what we get and shouldn't whine about it when it happens.

Examples? I am not aware of any other Secretaries of State who were found to have done this. Why did her own organization decide to hold the line on her all of a sudden?

I agree with your point of losing the D/R. Honestly, I would love to see our presidential candidates be selected less on agenda, and more on their ability to make sound judgment, even when it is hard.

 

[Ben Lamb]

You need to run for office, Nemont.

 

[BuzzH]

The people, as in US, are to blame.

We have all allowed those we elect to run wild, with no accountability for anything they do, for a long, long time. We routinely re-elect these arseholes and blame everyone elses arsehole for our woes.

So, yes Nemont, we all have this election coming to us...me included.

 

[MTGomer]

The email/server thing is the least of the problems with Hillary Clinton, as significant as it is

 

[Gr8bawana]

For those of you who say you will never vote for a Democrat, I ask what will happen when your elected republican officials finally get their way and transfer our public lands to the states who will then sell them to the highest bidder to make ends meet? Because it is only the republicans who keep pushing for this to happen.
If our public lands ever become private they will never ever again become public.

 

[shootbrownelk]

..and you'd be ok with that?

For access to BLM or National Forest lands conveniently landlocked by greedy landowners? YES. Access to Federal lands for the taxpaying sportspeople would benefit the many, at the expense of a few in comparison. The Government uses these tools all the time.

 

[James Riley]

The people, as in US, are to blame.

We have all allowed those we elect to run wild, with no accountability for anything they do, for a long, long time. We routinely re-elect these arseholes and blame everyone elses arsehole for our woes.

So, yes Nemont, we all have this election coming to us...me included.

Bingo.

Off topic rant:

I drew an analogy, on another discussion board, between U.S. political players (parties in particular) and high school cliques. Someone quipped back "Sorry you didn't enjoy high school" intoning that I was somehow a failure for not being one of the cool kids, with the in-crowd. That stung, a little bit. Because it was the truth. But you know what, it really just served to make my point. The point is the "black heart" of those players.

The only question is this: Is the black heart strategic, or is it innate to their being? Do they sting you to check you, or because they enjoy stinging you, and the one-upsmanship? Conversely, once you are on the inside with them, is their support for you strategic, or do they really care about you? I think we all know the answer to that question.

Nobody gets anywhere in our system unless they have a black heart. They will stab you in the back just as soon as look at you. And they sleep at night, justifying their actions as necessary for the common good: "I am really trying to help society with my sincerely held beliefs and if there is some collateral damage along the way, so be it." Is that what they really believe? Or are they just evil?

If you ever wonder why good people don't run for office (or win), then just look back to high school and the whole political operation of cliques. Is it any wonder that so many Americans don't vote? I'm sure there are many who are just so fundamentally disgusted by those who have what it takes to succeed in the political environment that they just want to stay away. It may very well be that they are not cynical, and not thinking their vote doesn't count; Rather, they may just feel they will never be able to shower long enough or use soap strong enough to get the putrid stench off their bodies from having voted for or against whatever POS happened to be running. In short, they may remember high school. They are out now. Why subject themselves to that crap?

So what is the alternative? I don't think there is one. Just as the Herd Bull is, well, the Herd Bull, and has what it takes to succeed in his world, so too the Alpha Wolf, and so too the successful politician in our system. We have created a situation where the likes of Clinton is our Herd Bull, our Alpha Wolf. But I, personally, won't help her along. I'll harass from the outside, like a Satellite Bull or, better yet, I'll take my chances and wander off like a Lone Wolf, avoiding the pack as best I can. The pack may be successful, but they make me sick to my stomach. There they are, rolling over and exposing their bellies to each other, sniffing each other's AHs, hazing and beating each other up, etc. But boy are they good when it comes to taking down their prey.

For all you people who continue to play: God Speed. I will continue to vote but I will no longer vote strategically (lesser of two evils, etc.). Trying to get you to vote strategically is just part of their strategy.

I will vote my conscience for some loser who doesn't appear to have a black heart. If you don't have a black heart, then you are a loser. I'll take a loser over a black heart any day of the week. Never vote for a winner.

Too bad life is not a teen movie where the losers win in the end and the black hearts get humiliated. Vote Carrie!

I really think the good in America is in spite of these people, not because of some innate righteousness of our Representative Democracy and how it might ferret out the best leaders through a messy process. That's BS. The “clique” (which, we are reminded, is a private, non-governmental organization) has actually passed public laws making it near impossible for non-clique people to challenge them. It's not merely inside Party “rules” but actual public laws. The foxes are in the hen-house and have been for quite some time. And sometimes the Rs and Ds collude on these laws to keep everyone else out.

A cynic would say we should want cut-throated, black-hearted leadership to protect from the boogy man. I say BS. They are the boogy man.

It is indeed OUR fault. We let this happen. There were a few saps along the way with clean hearts. But we didn't vote for them. We voted strategically instead. See where that got us? The only way to un-F this mess is to vote your conscience. If every R and D quit their party and voted their conscience, things would change. Find a good man, or a good woman; forgive them their humanity and faults, and vote for them.

Finally, if you were one of the “clique” in high school and now feel frustrated by our political system and your lack of a voice, all I can say is: Welcome, hen.

 

[MTGomer]

For those of you who say you will never vote for a Democrat, I ask what will happen when your elected republican officials finally get their way and transfer our public lands to the states who will then sell them to the highest bidder to make ends meet? Because it is only the republicans who keep pushing for this to happen.
If our public lands ever become private they will never ever again become public.

I will vote for a Democrat, just not this one.
I loved Schweitzer
I'll vote for Tester and Bullock in the future.
Wouldn't vote for Hillary of she was running against Mike Lee.

 

[Big Fin]

Can you expand on this? The choices are either a floppy haired, bigoted cartoon character or a humorless, shrill clanging gong. What exactly have we done to "deserve" either of those?

I get the passion everyone has for public lands but is that single issue upon which one can decide is the most important? Ever increasing Debt, never ending wars, Trade Pacts written by and for corporations, a broken health care system headed to real crisis in the next 6 to 12 months, policies that will guarantee that my kids and grand kids will be in basically debt prison for their entire product working lives. Both parties are complicity in these things so what exactly is the difference?

Neither of these two are equipped to deal with any of the looming crisises in a competent way. So why would I vote for either because I dang sure don't fee like I deserve either one of these people to be the president of this great nation, regardless of their position on public lands sell/transfer. Political smoke screen or not Hillary cannot be an effective president because she will be so gut shot by the time the election is over that only buzzards will be circling the White House trying to pick over the corpse of her administration. Trump is as bad or worse because he doesn't get politics at all.

Nemont

Unfortunately, it will take a bigger calamity in the White House (beyond the last 16 years) before America will climb out of the R and D trenches and look at WTF they are letting happen in this country. Anyone who votes for either of these two candidates would have a hard time convincing me that they are not a partisan hack. To me, if one uses even the slightest objectivity in analyzing the ability of either of these two people to lead the country, you come away with a solid "NO!" In fact, maybe even "Hell NO!"

Yet, hundreds of millions of Americans will vote for one of them. Either out of party allegiance or they have bought into the "Not voting for A is the equivalent of a vote for B."

As much as I like Trump's son being a hunter and hopefully giving him some balance on our issues, I can't vote for the guy. His campaign has been brilliant in analyzing the landscape of frustration that is out there. They nailed it when they measured the degree of frustration in America.

I completely understand the frustration that causes people find appeal in Trump's message. Too many in America are considered statistical casualties in a global economic war. Coming from the logging world, I saw the "Free Trade" ideas pretty much destroy that economy and how none of the groups driving the wedge really cared about the social costs imposed on the serfs. Most my friends and many of my family were considered to be a casualty, a necessary sacrifice in the global commerce war, left to deal with serious upheaval and social costs, with little regard or concern by the power brokers who made more money or wrestled more political power from the situation.

I see the same "casualty of global commerce" playing out in many other places of America; places where Trump's outsider image has appeal. Whether it is by georgrpahic region, industry, or segment of the economy, there are "statistical casualties" being served up on the alter of globalization every day.

When he talks about "Making America Great Again" it has an appeal to those who once felt they had a future in this country. When you have lost your dreams, it is hard to not listen to a guy who promises to give them back to you. Yet, Trump does not have a time machine. He cannot roll back the hands of time and change the course of globalization in our economic system. He knows it, we know it, but the narrative has powerful appeal to those who see their future drifting further into the ditch.

Unfortunately, the Trump campaign strategy to capitalize on the frustration is one of fear, anger, and all the other negative emotions that do not come from people who are born leaders. I wish he would have used a message that is based on positive emotions, but given he is not a true leader, I don't think he is able to craft a message of change on anything other than negative emotions. Fear and anger are the most powerful emotions in the human mind. His advisers know that. When I peel back the layers of his messages, I see fear and anger as the basis for most of it.

World history is full of tragic stories of cultures reacting to the natural emotions of fear and anger. None of the outcomes history shows us are very good.

All that said about Trump's message being based on fear and anger, there is not a chance in Hell that I would vote for Hillary. So, I find myself in a search for a write-in candidate, knowing that my vote will surely not be for the winner.

I accept that I will not be voting for the winner. That is fine. I expect the next four years to have serious complications, no matter which candidate is elected. If the popularity of Trump and Sanders tells us anything, it is that America is on the brink of some serious upheaval. If history is any indicator, the current "Insiders" will do all they can to hold on. They will hope that throwing a few bones to the peasants will settle the unrest and allow them to stay at the Command and Control center.

What bones they can throw the serfs may buy them some time, but the pot is boiling faster than they can release the steam. I think that a two-party system cannot sustain in the information age of today. To me, that is good, though it will come with some serious unrest. It is just taking a decade or two for the people to realize they don't have to accept the insider BS. In my lifetime, assuming I am not converted to grizzly turds prematurely, I will see the end of the two party system. That in itself will be chaotic. What comes out the other end of the tube, who knows, but I suspect it will be better than the two-party system of today.

When you see a merging of the politicians, the media, and the funding mechanisms that drive it, all fighting to keep the status quo, to the point where they all look to be one in the same, you know the status quo is in big trouble. And they know it.

By voting for neither of the status quo, I hope my vote is one more straw on the camel's back and that the camel's back breaks, sooner rather than later.