wllm1313,
There are tags issued every year in Wyoming that only the max point holders are able to draw. In fact, very few random sheep and moose tags are issued at all for NR. Even in the case of Residents here, some of the moose and sheep tags are impossible for anyone but point holders to draw. I believe that Arizona was in a similar place until recently when enough people complained that they were being excluded from some of the top elk, deer, pronghorn, and sheep tags. Montana is also another example of a place where NR's are applying for tags with no chance of drawing. There are usually moose, sheep, and goat areas where NR's are told they can apply, then withdrawn by the commission before the draw. Meaning if you apply in good faith for some of those, the commission has, at least in the past, kept application fees, point fees, etc. with the NR applicant having NO chance of drawing. Also, the region quotas can also be filled before the specific unit an applicant applied for is even considered. Also, the up to 10% rule, doesn't assure a NR will ever draw a single tag. From looking at past years, NR's are usually drawing closer to 5-7% of the tags, nowhere near "up to 10%".
Really can't argue with this, there are definitely screwed up situations with some of the draws especially MSG where their might be only 1 or 2 tags in a unit. To some extent, I could see an argument for making MSG resident only across the board. My general sentiment is that if odds are longer than 1:100 who really cares you're not going to draw, it's a lotto ticket at that point.
As to your money argument, that's a non-starter with me as well. Its been just in the last 10-12 years that States have decided to bend us over with the requirement of hunting licenses, high priced points, and things of that nature. My first several points in States like UT, WY, MT, etc. were very cheap, some as cheap as $5 with no license requirement. So, my point is, what you contend with regard to lose of point fees will harm the revenue stream, well, that was never intended to be a way to fund the GF agencies from the get-go. The license requirements also allow states to receive more PR funding, which is the states way of gaming the point system to their advantage. What point systems were meant to be was a system to give long time applicants a better chance at a tag, period.
The GF agencies certainly have seen a potential revenue source, capitalized on it, while systematically allowing many other user groups to get off Scott free with not helping fund the Agencies. Some are consumptive users that pay absolutely nothing, others benefit from the dollars that sportsmen bring to their states, etc.
Would love to see a backpack tax, with TABOR in CO I think tags are the easiest rev stream. I'm not sure how else you could fund the system, CO has shown time and again they won't pay for anything. The states population is soaring, property values have doubled in the last 5 years and yet we spend less per student than most of the US and we can't find two pennies to rub together for roads. So 100% agree but the reality is that is how hunting licenses are being.
I would also contend that preference points defy the R3 efforts that many GF agencies want us Sportsmen to promote. If you're trying to retain, recruit, and reengage hunters...its a fair argument that putting them decades behind in the ability to draw a tag isn't promoting that, at all. I get it that the R3 stuff is geared more to the easier tags to access, but in the case of Wyoming, there are pronghorn tags now, that take 1-4 points that I could buy as leftovers when I moved here in 2000. Point systems create that, those that have already used their max points for tags, are now plugging up the lower tier units and making it tough to draw without points, nearly across the State.
Not following, what does points have to do with it... due to R3 aren't there just more people applying for tags, I'm not sure where to pull the aggregated stats, but my thought was that because of R3 there were now 100k people applying for 50k licenses instead of 40k people applying for 50k license. (number completely fabricated) Point creep is just a symptom of the western hunting gaining popularity.
Pronghorn apps 11.73% in 2 years
wgfd.wyo.gov
These point systems have become an incredible quagmire with people vested in some for nearly 30 years, with agencies now smelling blood in the water as a revenue stream, and hunter numbers continuing to decline. There is no easy answer and no easy way out of them. There is also no doubt they are not sustainable and that as people become better at math, the agencies are going to be making some changes to satisfy the desire to change them. Count on it, its already happened and will happen more frequently as time goes on, IMO/E.
100% agree, I have a feeling social media is only going to continue to make western hunting seem sexy and that we will see point creep continue even as hunting overall declines.
Carry on....
