Using your GPS to access public lands

[billy-bob8]

My son Ryan, my friend Paul, and I recently went to Wyoming to hunt Antelope. It was a great trip and we all were able to take a goat. The question is this, we were using our GPS with the Wyoming Hunting map chip to access a checker board area of public and private land when we were approached by the land owner. She also had the same GPS set-up. We both agreed that we were standing on public land and she asked how we got to the spot we were standing. We informed her that we accessed the public land from a ranch road that was on a public square, proceeded to an intersection of public / private land and continued onto public land to were we now were. She then told us that it is illegal to go from cornor to cornor to access any public land beyond the original parcel we accessed from the public ranch road because you cant be positive that you crossed at the EXACT cornor. according to her this decision went " all the way to the Supreme Court ". I called the Wyo game and fish office in Laramie and was informed that there was a court case from Carbon County maybe 8 - 10 years ago that was decided in the landowners favor.

WTF this basically locks us out of checkerboard public / private land ownership areas, also with the new GPS land ownership chips we have the ability to get within 8 ft of the cornors to cross.

Maybe the landowners should have to survey and mark their property lines so that we don't accidently cross them. My property lines were surveyed and marked as Im sure yours are to.

Has this been addressed thru the legal system lately? And are the GPS map chip guys on it?

 

[Oak]

Search "corner crossing" on here. It has been discussed at great length.

 

[Muskeez]

I hear ya!

You did a great job of explaining your situation. I am totally with you as is almost everyone on here I bet. I would imagine this has been kicked around a hundred times, but it is total BS that PUBLIC land is surrounded on 4 sides by private land and the next public square only touches it on a corner. Who came up with this division of lands in the old days? I would guess their intent was for the public to be able to use each square that was deemed to be PUBLIC land. As it is today, the ranchers around theses squares might as well have a poker game to decide which of them gets to claim these squares of land each year, because it sure as heck isn't us, the PUBLIC, that gets to claim them as ours to use and enjoy. In comparison, we found way more land that we could hunt in WY than we have in IA, but that isn't the point. The point is, public lands that touch on corners only aren't really public lands with the current corner crossing issue. How many of you guys have challenged this and went ahead and walked from corner to corner anyway? Maybe most of the ranchers don't really care anyway? Thanks for bringing it up BB, obviously I have been wondering the same thing...

 

[Oak]

Who came up with this division of lands in the old days?

Google railroad land grants.

 

[bushwcker]

This situation is tough for all involved. The GPS map is a great tool and can usually solve problems right in the field.. I always give a 100% effort to do the right thing and if there is any doubt about crossing private land, I just go on down the road and find a public square that I can access that way no one can argue about anything....But on the flip side, I feel that if the land owner doesn't want people on his land clearly mark it as such leave nothing open to interpretation....I'm a land owner and I feel its my responsibility to properly mark it as such if I don't want people on it...This is all just my opinion though...

 

[WapitiBob]

Sounds like the LO was pretty level headed.
The corner crossing issue has never made it to the Supreme Court, and the most recent case ruled in favor of the hunter, not the LO.
What most of us do is hunt those sections that have a public road going thru them and their adjacent parcels. The Game dept won't cite for corner crossing from what I and others have been told but the Sheriff's office will.
When talking to a LEO a cpl years ago he said nearly all BLM/PVT corners were pinned in his area.

 

[sbhooper]

This really is a pretty ridiculous situation. Those parcels are touching at the corner and the lease holder is calling the shots because they have the surrounding land. The lease on those squares are not market value to start with and then the public is totally locked out of the land that is paid for by taxpayers. There are millions of acres in this situation in Wyoming alone. If this was changed, there would be an amazing amount of hunting land open out west.

I don't know how this is ever going to be changed, but it is just plain not right.

 

[1_pointer]

This really is a pretty ridiculous situation. Those parcels are touching at the corner and the lease holder is calling the shots because they have the surrounding land. The lease on those squares are not market value to start with and then the public is totally locked out of the land that is paid for by taxpayers. There are millions of acres in this situation in Wyoming alone. If this was changed, there would be an amazing amount of hunting land open out west.

I don't know how this is ever going to be changed, but it is just plain not right.

Google "red herring"...

Doesn't have anything to do with public land grazing permits, its a private property right issue. I know first hand that the lease/permit holder is not always the one who owns the parcels that corner to public land.

 

[sbhooper]

I realize that, but it is the same issue. The public is being locked out of taxpayer-owned land by access issues due to surrounding private land.

 

[Oak]

Grazing leases generally don't affect public access. I'm not following your statement.

 

[Oak]

For 1_pointer: I mean grazing "permits."

 

[WyOpitz]

I agree 100% with you regarding the bullshit factor. If they can land lock the so-called public land, they should pay taxes on it or provide an easement to said public land.

 

[windpowerpro]

Your jacked

I just completed a Wyoming Hunters Safety class about 5-6 months ago and they told us that corner jumping is against the law. Sorry

 

[Colberjs]

I just completed a Wyoming Hunters Safety class about 5-6 months ago and they told us that corner jumping is against the law. Sorry

How can it be against the law? If you never set foot on private property you are not trespassing. If so every pilot in the country trespasses as they fly over private land. As long as one step is on public land and the next step is on adjoining public land it can't be illegal. They would have to prove otherwise.

 

[1_pointer]

For 1_pointer: I mean grazing "permits."

No worries, as one may be technically correct using lease or permit. Section 3 vs. Section 15 of the TGA. However, Section 3 (permits) are the most common IME.

 

[1_pointer]

How can it be against the law? If you never set foot on private property you are not trespassing. If so every pilot in the country trespasses as they fly over private land. As long as one step is on public land and the next step is on adjoining public land it can't be illegal. They would have to prove otherwise.

A commercial grade GPS will not allow one to "know" if they crossing at the infinitely small point that is a corner unless it is monumented. The little bit of time I've spent setting official public land boundary markers, we were setting them within a fraction of an inch from true (to be less than 4 thousandths IIRC). An error on the scale of feet, as is common with most GPS units, IMO does not suffice to know if one is at the 'exact' corner or not. Some states have sensible laws regarding this issue. For example, some allow corner crossing and others permit you to be on land if it is not marked/cultivated. IMO the later is the better way to go.

 

[the nikster]

Perhaps we need to take the fight to the landowners.
Make it illegal for landowners or lessee's or permit holders to cross corners from private to private unless the corner is clearly marked. This clearly marked corner could legally be crossed both ways.
I live in Idaho. I have no dog in the fight except to support my hunting brethren.
I support a landowners right to restrict access to personal property.

 

[WT_in_MT]

A commercial grade GPS will not allow one to "know" if they crossing at the infinitely small point that is a corner unless it is monumented. The little bit of time I've spent setting official public land boundary markers, we were setting them within a fraction of an inch from true (to be less than 4 thousandths IIRC). An error on the scale of feet, as is common with most GPS units, IMO does not suffice to know if one is at the 'exact' corner or not. Some states have sensible laws regarding this issue. For example, some allow corner crossing and others permit you to be on land if it is not marked/cultivated. IMO the later is the better way to go.

Add to that the uncertainty of whether the base map image has a few feet or a hundred feet of error.

 

[Slam]

The 2 major impediments to hunting in Wy. are the corner crossing issue and the public road being shut off as "private" for a given length that effectively shuts off access to public ground. 3 weeks ago while hunting n/e Wy. I experienced both issues. One rancher had a large sign stating "private road" next 7 miles" with a phone #. I called the # and had pleasant conversation with the lady of the house who was gracious enough to allow me to trespass across her 7 miles. When I asked her to distinguish private vs public roads (this road is shown on maps and GPS) for my education, she stated "we gave access for the road, it benefits us", I then asked who maintains? Her reply was that there was a system similar to a township that is responsible for maintenance. At that point she said it would be ok to cross...I thanked her for her time and graciousness. On another occasion, I parked at the crest of hill reviewing my map and GPS when a rancher pulled along side, said hello and announced that he owned the next 300 yds. of road and he did not allow trespassing. The map and GPS showed as such, however, beyond his 300 yds were ~6400 acres of contiguous State & BLM ground. The rancher left with a truck of hunters following him. I watched as they drove onto a State section and proceeded to hunt. For clarification, I called the Converse County Sheriff and had a pleasant conversation with a deputy who stated "we prefer to deal with actual trespassing issues" ???? I asked for a more definitive explanation and she stated "cases where someone clearly is on private ground". I then asked if I would be arrested or fined for traversing this private section of road and she repeated her above statement. I asked for a clear yes/no and got neither. Curious.

 

[1_pointer]

Add to that the uncertainty of whether the base map image has a few feet or a hundred feet of error.

There's that too!