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I couldn't disagree more with this. In my experience, Crow tribal members don't care one iota about social pressure and expectations.
U.S. supreme Court case - Big decision ahead
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
I couldn't disagree more with this. In my experience, Crow tribal members don't care one iota about social pressure and expectations.
You may very well be correct but when I hear "subsistence hunting" and "feed my family" and then whole elk carcasses are found with with no heads I think the obvious lies should be put on display. Are those families living on antlers and brains?
375H&H
Well-known member
Those obvious lies are on display over at Monstermuleys.com
The crow tried doesnt manage anything like the south west tribes. Only the fringes of the crow have any game and there is no season and no bag limit.
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You are assuming the Crows would follow the law. They wont.
Randy, you make some good points. However, what resulted from the clash of a modern industrial society and one still for all intents and purposes living in the stone age isnt a huge surprise. Really there could have been only one outcome and if anything the US government was pretty generous with them. In fact more generous than the tribes were with each other.
Honestly the the treaties and the reservation system has done great harm to the tribes and continues to do so. What should have been done is to treat indians like any other US citizen. Make them eligible for land grants under the homestead act and thereby assimilate them into the culture of the US. Of course it's too late now basicly we are stuck with poor decisions made in the 1800's.
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375H&H
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To save the click...
About as good a statement as can be made by WY Governor... Hopefully MT, "...will stand up for a system that preserves the decades of conservation work..." and does not kowtow / let snowflakes fall, to the likes of corruption as exemplified within the NW MT Browning based setting...
Montana spent much of the 1990s negotiating with tribes. The number of tribes that have treaty-based hunting rights that cover parts of Montana is immense. Most of the tribes have followed the agreements to some extent. That said, there are some tribes, or individual tribal members, that have no interest in negotiating agreements.
I know the elk issue in Wyoming makes people think this is new. I would suggest people read how the MT-tribal allocations of bison opportunity came about in the mid-2000's. I would also suggest folks go down to West Yellowstone and Gardiner when the tribes are hunting bison. Any elk or ram close to a road is in serious danger of getting shot. Yes, they shoot a lot of elk on the winter range. It has been happening for decades. Same with moose and other species in NW Montana.
Whether or not Montana has been able to keep Pandora in the box, albeit a pretty big box, remains to be seen. This case may embolden some tribal members to disregard the agreements their tribes may have struck with MT and result in more hunting by tribal members. And those who do not recognize Montana authority in wildlife might show up and try to force the issue here, setting back what is always a tenuous agreement between a state, Montana, and the tribes as sovereigns that view these agreements as big concessions on their part when measured against what rights are outlined in their treaties.
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What are the chances you'll remember saying this on the internet when the culture of the U.S. takes a decided turn to the urban and the majority think that owning guns and shooting animals is a relic from a bygone age? Who gets to hang on to their culture in the face of a changing world? Everyone? No one? Just you?
Preferably everyone.
Indians are not hanging onto their culture.
The reservation system does the opposite of preserve their culture.
They are living in hunger, poverty and addiction with the US government keeping its foot on the back of their heads, handing them free shit in exchange for control of every aspect of their lives, their land and their affairs. The BIA is a useless, corrupt bureaucracy that should be disbanded and their trust powers over Indians given back to Indians.
I could write 10 paragraphs and not even scratch the surface on how much bullshit I have to jump through with the BIA just to deliver electricity from an existing line on tribal land, 500 feet across tribal land to the home of a tribal member on tribal land. That’s for something as simple as a power connection.
Now imagine a couple hundred miles of water pipeline and a treatment plant to get clean water to the poorest people in the country that doesn’t have it.
We’ll spend $5 dealing with BIA bureaucracy for every $1 spent building or designing.
They shouldn’t be forced to assimilate but they shouldn’t be treated like children by a bunch of useless parasites that could never hold a private sector job themselves, either.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
I so didn't want to respond to this, its at best, very thinly veiled racism and I have to say I have lost a boatload of respect for several people on this board over this SC decision. I guess the positive that comes from these threads is that they expose people for what they really are.
I think many need to read the treaty, there is again, a contract in place that states the US Government is responsible for providing certain things to the tribes via the treaty/contract. It also outlines certain rights, including the right to hunt.
It also seems to me that statements like those in the quote above, are making it sound as if the only inefficiencies in the whole world are at the hands of the BIA and tribal members. That's pure bullshit. I can show you mountains of inefficiencies in city, county, state, and federal government, as well as private companies that run like total crap. I can show you households that are run like crap. Its not unique to those living on reservations, at all.
The bigger issue to me, is that while I'm not really that happy with the decision from a purely conservation standpoint, what I am happy about it that the US Government is being held accountable to the treaty signed by the Government and the Tribe. Its not the tribes Treaty, its not the US Governments treaty...its OUR treaty. Both parties negotiated in good faith and both own it...and both are responsible to living up to said agreement.
That includes the US Government providing healthcare, upholding hunting rights, and everything else found in that treaty.
What my ass is tired of, is the city, state, and federal governments NOT living up to their end of bargains. They do it all the time and I'll give some specific examples:
The LWCF is supposed to receive 900 million in funding, yet the Government never fully funds it. Our very own Veterans are supposed to have sufficient medical care, promised by the Government when they signed their names to serve. Yet, our lovely politicians provide them with very sketchy medical care. Governors sign MOU's and break them at will. Its well past time that someone starts holding the people we elect to represent us accountable. Accountable to THEIR agreements and THEIR contracts. The Crow Tribe taking this to court and winning, I say good for them.
I'm happy that the rights granted in the treaty were upheld by the USSC, but at the same time, concerned with what exercising those rights may look like. Its well past time the Government is held accountable, because many times they aren't and I've grown tired of it.
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The idea that treaties, negotiated after powerful colonialists murdered innocent women and children and then burned their villages were ‘negotiated in good faith’ is ridiculous.
It was more along the lines of go to the reservation, sign this treaty, and we won’t kill you. It’s not as if the tribe’s had an option.
They didn’t want to be put on the reservation or have to sign anything.
The BIA will never treat Indians right. They’ll never provide the type of healthcare, education and opportunities you and I had. The reservation, perpetual welfare system functions just as expected: poorly - like all things controlled from the top down by government- and it always will.
Not wanting native’s conquerors to keep them poor and oppressed = racism.
I’m sure you’re content with the way things are running. When it takes 5 months to get power to a native family, just think of all the fed parasites similar to you that get to throw their weight around and act important.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
The idea that treaties, negotiated after powerful colonialists murdered innocent women and children and then burned their villages were ‘negotiated in good faith’ is ridiculous.
It was more along the lines of go to the reservation, sign this treaty, and we won’t kill you. It’s not as if the tribe’s had an option.
They didn’t want to be put on the reservation or have to sign anything.
The BIA will never treat Indians right. They’ll never provide the type of healthcare, education and opportunities you and I had. The reservation, perpetual welfare system functions just as expected: poorly - like all things controlled from the top down by government- and it always will.
Not wanting native’s conquerors to keep them poor and oppressed = racism.
I’m sure you’re content with the way things are running. When it takes 5 months to get power to a native family, just think of all the fed parasites similar to you that get to throw their weight around and act important.
I don't care if the treaty was signed with a gun to one sides head or not...its still a binding contract with the expectation it will be upheld. Exactly what the USSC concluded in regard to the Crow's treaty rights regarding hunting. Would stripping their hunting rights afforded them by the treaty be a good thing? How would that help get power to their homes quicker?
I also don't agree with your broad brush painting of what opportunities are provided to tribal members. Like the rest of society, opportunity is there, even for tribal members...seen it.
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I don’t think I suggested either of the things you’re asking about.
Of course, you can read and you know that.
No surprise the same arrogant, off topic nonsense as you usually respond to anything critical of your precious, infallible federal government is showing up here.
You have made a career out of being part of the problem. Of course you would defend it. You get paid a federal salary, a federal pension, and cannot be fired to be a part of the problem.
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