U.S. supreme Court case - Big decision ahead

Mthuntr

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This is complicated. My naivety of treaties and how they should apply to the 21st Century has my head spinning. I hope this one ends up siding with WY and the US Gov't such to prevent destruction and uncontrolled harvest of the public's wildlife resource. However 150+ years long breaking of treaties has destroyed an important culture of Native Americans.
 
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Kbbond

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Interesting situation, seems like a battle of definitions. Unfortunately, I can see that if this goes a certain way, a lot of herd management plans could be derailed. I feel Native Americans should be afforded some privileges when it comes to hunting/fishing/gathering, but the way that treaty from the 1800's was written just doesn't fit with how wildlife need to be conserved and managed today. Interesting case to follow!
 

mtguy

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Interesting situation, seems like a battle of definitions. Unfortunately, I can see that if this goes a certain way, a lot of herd management plans could be derailed. I feel Native Americans should be afforded some privileges when it comes to hunting/fishing/gathering, but the way that treaty from the 1800's was written just doesn't fit with how wildlife need to be conserved and managed today. Interesting case to follow!
I would like to know what privileges they should have? They get to hunt/fish on their reservations year round. Seems like a privilege to me. But hey, what do i know. Part of the problem with that privilege is some reservations have very little game species left.
 

Kbbond

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I would like to know what privileges they should have? They get to hunt/fish on their reservations year round. Seems like a privilege to me. But hey, what do i know. Part of the problem with that privilege is some reservations have very little game species left.
Getting to hunt year-round on native lands..That seems like a good privilege to me that the vast majority do not get. i wasn't offering that they should have free reign over all lands and wildlife at all times however, no one should given the status of humans and wildlife today
 

406LIFE

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I've been following this closely.

In western MT, the Salish-Kootenai have rights from the Hellgate Treaty that allows them off reservation hunting and fishing on their native lands that are federal. This has been an issue since I was a kid with what has been perceived from non "native" hunters as destructive and unregulated. There have been attempts from FWP and the tribe to work together, but largely I haven't seen anything to speak of.

I also think many are very uninformed about natives, the history before white expansion and how they interacted. This resource is a great place to start: https://www.amazon.com/Earth-Weeping-Story-Indian-American/dp/0307958043


Perhaps it is time to revisit these treaties.
 

pgidley

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Here in Canada, hunting, trapping and fishing is a treaty right that is enjoyed by many Indigenous people. I'll reserve sharing my own opinions on the impact that it has had, because I don't feel sufficiently informed on the harvest levels and impacts. I will say that there is some significant tension, particularly in areas where increased public access (i.e. roads where there were none previously). A lot of finger pointing and some pretty racist sentiments if you visit some of our hunting forums and search the subject. There are those that abuse the right, but typically those who weren't raised with traditional values that teach respect for the resource.

Our moose numbers are hurting, but its not clear what the root cause is. My own thought is simply a combination of factors - poor regulation of the moose hunt, both treaty based and non-native, and the political impact that cutting tag numbers might have. The calf hunt for sure. Brainworm from expanding deer range. Predation has been fairly constant over the years, and I don't really buy the spring bear hunt argument (although I'm in favour of the spring hunt).

I no longer apply for moose tags here, but if we had a preference point system I would. We have a party hunt that favours large groups, and I don't care to hunt with more than one or two friends at the most.

Here is an interesting article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/chapleau-moose-hunting-limits-northern-ontario-1.4374646

I'm not sure how similarly this would play out in the United States, and your treaty relationship is significantly different than ours. But I will continue to follow this and am very interested in how it plays out.
 
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MTGomer

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For all the bitching on this forum we all take part in about Montana’s managing of the Custer, we will consider this the golden years if it becomes a de facto extension of Cheyenne and Crow land in regards to hunting and wildlife populations.
 

Schaaf

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For all the bitching on this forum we all take part in about Montana’s managing of the Custer, we will consider this the golden years if it becomes a de facto extension of Cheyenne and Crow land in regards to hunting and wildlife populations.
I'm thinking there might be a few more Breaks sheep harvested each year as well.
 

1_pointer

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For all the bitching on this forum we all take part in about Montana’s managing of the Custer, we will consider this the golden years if it becomes a de facto extension of Cheyenne and Crow land in regards to hunting and wildlife populations.
I could very well see that happening. Be curious to know how national parks are factored in.
 

mtguy

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For all the bitching on this forum we all take part in about Montana’s managing of the Custer, we will consider this the golden years if it becomes a de facto extension of Cheyenne and Crow land in regards to hunting and wildlife populations.
And the sheep of the breaks could start falling like house flies
 

marshman

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Watch out...The next thing you know the State and the Tribes are "Co- Managers" of the natural resources. After this happens things really go south in a hurry for non tribal Hunters and Fisherman.
Just look at Washington.
 

LopeHunter

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Most of the West is inhabited now so that may be the basis for a court ruling that restricts what lands are open to hunting that is not controlled by a particular state. I always thought that if the Feds want to continue the Endangered Species Act then you have to have state-level control of wildlife with Fed oversight when a species is threatened.

Allowing harvest in addition to what a state manages for could push a species towards being threatened or endangered. For example, bighorn sheep along Snake River in Idaho and mountain goat in Cascades of Oregon get hammered currently by hunters that are beyond the control of those states. Harvesting an extra dozen rams and billies a year would push both populations towards threatened.
 

TheTone

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And the sheep of the breaks could start falling like house flies
I would bet they would be all but gone in a matter of months.

I'm really hoping the state of wyoming prevails in this.
 
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