U.S. Debt Ceiling. 31.4 Trillion!

[antelopedundee]

Why You Really Don't Want Your Money in Treasuries if the US Defaults on Its Debt

A default on U.S. Treasuries is a rare but looming possibility. Here's what will happen to your investment in Treasuries if the worst comes to pass.

www.fool.com

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Books can (and have) been writting, but in a sentence . . .Unions in the 60s and 70s successfully blocking early automation attempts, and destroying incentive for quality of workmanship, in auto and steel industries handed those industries to Japan. That was the beginning of the de-industrialization of America.

My wife’s current employer has increased the compensation of their employees 30% since the employees started the unionization process.

Pretty dramatic display of how little they valued their staff and how much actual “room in the budget” they have to treat folks fairly if they actually need to.

She’s leaving for company with a union, pay is about the same as her current one even though the cost of living is dramatically lower, the union has gotten the employer to provide vacation pay, cell phone stipends, parking which is hilarious that that’s a issue but yes wife’s current job doesn’t provide parking, and has actually demanded that they stick to duty hours instead of the employer just telling their staff to lie about hours so the company doesn’t lose its license.

These jobs can’t leave the community much less the US so it’s a bit apples to oranges.

That said I’m unconvinced that if those labor unions you mentioned hadn’t existed those jobs would have stayed. There are plenty of industries that have moved to Asia that didn’t have unions.

 

[brymoore]

As a former GM employee, I watched the company flounder in the 90s/2000s due to legacy costs for union demands. GM went bankrupt due to the legacy costs of full health insurance and substantial retirement benefits that foreign competitors didn’t pay.

As a white collar employee, I received fringe benefits from the contracts. My family health insurance was $300 a year and I received 100% retirement at a magical 85 number (age plus employment years) which was 53 for me. Unsustainable benefits.

UAW killed GM in the 2000s from the contracts in the 70s. It never cared about the company.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Back to the OP.

If they reach agreement this week we will avoid an immediate crisis but will have further weakened our place as the go-to economy yet again. If they don’t reach agreement we will watch 75 years of historically calm financial affairs plunge into the unknown- it could take decades to rebuild an international consensus as effective as this. The last 8 years of American politics by both sides will at best diminish, and at worst impoverish, our grandchildren. Every party official on both sides should be held in the greatest distain for placing sound bite politics ahead of an ordered world. And shame on their supporters and pundits for thinking global economics was some type of tribal board game that could be played for sport.

I am out on this thread. Have fun.

 

[SAJ-99]

As a former GM employee, I watched the company flounder in the 90s/2000s due to legacy costs for union demands. GM went bankrupt due to the legacy costs of full health insurance and substantial retirement benefits that foreign competitors didn’t pay.

As a white collar employee, I received fringe benefits from the contracts. My family health insurance was $300 a year and I received 100% retirement at a magical 85 number (age plus employment years) which was 53 for me. Unsustainable benefits.

UAW killed GM in the 2000s from the contracts in the 70s. It never cared about the company.

Same actuarial assumptions used in SS. Average lifespan grew from 71-72 to 79. That isn't the union's fault or the company's. People hate work and want to retire as soon as they can. Highest costs are related to health care and those costs are back-end loaded to the last few years of life. You can walk your way to a conclusion from there...

 

[longbow51]

My wife’s current employer has increased the compensation of their employees 30% since the employees started the unionization process.

Pretty dramatic display of how little they valued their staff and how much actual “room in the budget” they have to treat folks fairly if they actually need to.

She’s leaving for company with a union, pay is about the same as her current one even though the cost of living is dramatically lower, the union has gotten the employer to provide vacation pay, cell phone stipends, parking which is hilarious that that’s a issue but yes wife’s current job doesn’t provide parking, and has actually demanded that they stick to duty hours instead of the employer just telling their staff to lie about hours so the company doesn’t lose its license.

These jobs can’t leave the community much less the US so it’s a bit apples to oranges.

That said I’m unconvinced that if those labor unions you mentioned hadn’t existed those jobs would have stayed. There are plenty of industries that have moved to Asia that didn’t have unions.

I thought your wife was a MD? They're unionizing now? So are you in the Men's Auxiliary. Mighty good Auxiliary...

I knew about residents.

 

[LWC55]

Always said, we have term limits every 2, 4 and 6 years if we want them.

Should end presidential term limits as well. Biden4ever!

 

[SAJ-99]

I wish, I get to be the primary caregiver and the bread winner…

Family reading night?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Family reading night?

View attachment 276966

In 2023 it is 80/80/80/20. Husband gives full 80%, Wife gives full 80%, Government takes full 80% of all they produce and gives to folks not even doing 20%

 

[MtnElk]

I wish, I get to be the primary caregiver and the bread winner…

I feel your pain. The curse of the remote worker

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I feel your pain. The curse of the remote worker

When you make it to noon and the babies down for a nap and you actually managed to get all your work done that morning…

 

[BuzzH]

As a former GM employee, I watched the company flounder in the 90s/2000s due to legacy costs for union demands. GM went bankrupt due to the legacy costs of full health insurance and substantial retirement benefits that foreign competitors didn’t pay.

As a white collar employee, I received fringe benefits from the contracts. My family health insurance was $300 a year and I received 100% retirement at a magical 85 number (age plus employment years) which was 53 for me. Unsustainable benefits.

UAW killed GM in the 2000s from the contracts in the 70s. It never cared about the company.

Sounds like the company had some dog shit contract negotiators.

 

[brymoore]

Sounds like the company had some dog shit contract negotiators.

It’s easy to compromise when you have short term thinking and use hope as an ingredient of future success.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

It’s easy to compromise when you have short term thinking and use hope as an ingredient of future success.

If we let all these old expensive folks retire we can hire young cheap one's, hopefully the retirees kick the bucket ASAP?

This is exactly were CO schools v. PERA are currently.

 

[SAJ-99]

If we let all these old expensive folks retire we can hire young cheap one's, hopefully the retirees kick the bucket ASAP?

This is exactly were CO schools v. PERA are currently.

Unfortunate but true. The thought is incredibly morbid, but maybe we should emphasize more quality-of-life versus quantity-of-life discussions from doctors, make euthanasia legal (some states it is), financial incentives to people who sign DNRs after a certain age. All topics no one wants to talk about, but screaming "They will have Death Squads!" in a political debate sure gains points, in Florida for sure.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Unfortunate but true. The thought is incredibly morbid, but maybe we should emphasize more quality-of-life versus quantity-of-life discussions from doctors, make euthanasia legal (some states it is), financial incentives to people who sign DNRs after a certain age. All topics no one wants to talk about, but screaming "They will have Death Squads!" in a political debate sure gains points, in Florida for sure.

My comment was more that's what CO tried in the early 00's they pushed a ton of teachers into retirement, let them go at 30 years. Thought was to drive down budget costs by hiring new teachers at the bottom rung. Problem is that they were letting a ton of folks retire in their 50s and now have to figure out how to pay benefits for 30-40 years.

Would have been much cheaper for the state in the long run to have teachers work to 65-67.

Plus pushing out a huge portion of the work force caused a shortage and they've struggled so much they've let folks come back part time and simultaneously pull full benefits.

That's not a union problem that's a stupid administration problem.

(I agree with putting quality over quantity, that just wasn't my central thrust)

 

[SAJ-99]

My comment was more that's what CO tried in the early 00's they pushed a ton of teachers into retirement, let them go at 30 years. Thought was to drive down budget costs by hiring new teachers at the bottom rung. Problem is that they were letting a ton of folks retire in their 50s and now have to figure out how to pay benefits for 30-40 years.

Would have been much cheaper for the state in the long run to have teachers work to 65-67.

Plus pushing out a huge portion of the work force caused a shortage and they've struggled so much they've let folks come back part time and simultaneously pull full benefits.

That's not a union problem that's a stupid administration problem.

(I agree with putting quality over quantity, that just wasn't my central thrust)

What you point out is quite common. Teachers unions seem to prefer early retirement over higher pay (not sure why that is…better at math?) Companies do the same offer all the time- auto makers, utilities, even an insurance company I used to work for. But the bet,mathmatically at least, is still the same as SS faces, the hope the individual will go belly-up. For companies, they have an excuse the government doesn’t. The near-term stock price is more important to the CEO than an infinite-term liability on the balance sheet. The next CEO typically tries to buy employees out of the DB retirement plan. This is why large companies don’t offer DB plans anymore and don’t like unions that try to push the idea. GW’s plan for SS was to essentially turn it into a DC plan -make the individual citizen bear the risk and responsibility of “retirement” funds and not the government. I’m sure the idea will get revisited in the coming years.

 

[noharleyyet]

Unfortunate but true. The thought is incredibly morbid, but maybe we should emphasize more quality-of-life versus quantity-of-life discussions from doctors, make euthanasia legal (some states it is), financial incentives to people who sign DNRs after a certain age. All topics no one wants to talk about, but screaming "They will have Death Squads!" in a political debate sure gains points, in Florida for sure.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Sounds like the company had some dog shit contract negotiators.

Or the union had some really good ones

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

View attachment 277106

Death panel Trump and Biden