Thoughts on this bailout and “stimulus”?

[Deleted member 28227]

Wouldn't having children be motivation for most parents to have 6 months of savings for a rainy day/pandemic? Not an excuse as to why they can't save it.

The reality is lots of Americans don’t have the ability to build savings at all.

 

[Big Fin]

Nanci Pelosi should be brought up on charges for trying to capitalize on a national crisis.
She is 100% no different than that twat that hoarded the 17,000 bottles of hand sanitizer.
BOTH are trying to take advantage of a national disaster. The only difference is one is pushing an agenda and one is trying to sell a product.


To the people who do not have a minimum of 6 months of savings to cover your bills in your bank account. I am ashamed of you. And you should be ashamed of yourself. Life isnt a damn hippie fest. Be an adult.
You cant afford it because you have kids? Maybe you should have though of that BEFORE deciding to have children in the first place.

Your freedom from financial crisses like this comes at a price.

I digress.

Yeah, you're about ready to digress your ass out the door. If you want to rant about your own personal politics, that is what Facebook is for.

FWIW, I am not fan of the Speaker, but I also think Hunt Talk can be a place of worthwhile discussion while we are all stuck at home or in a state of flux. I'm not inclined to let it be polluted with shit like you have been posting.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Wouldn't having children be motivation for most parents to have 6 months of savings for a rainy day/pandemic? Not an excuse as to why they can't save it.

What if they did everything you said but had high medical bills in the fall - had a layoff - etc. You hugely overstate the simplicity of your advice. Many many people are diligent and frugal, but still get crushed when bad events happen.

 

[Exhausted]

I'll throw up some real transparent numbers. I have a budget pulled up right now and my monthly expenses total +/- $6,400. Sure, this includes things like piano lessons and eating out that could be cut down. But let's work with that figure.

6 months of $6,400 is $38,400. Based upon the excess cash flow in our budget (about $625) it would take us just over 5 years of diligent saving (never going over our budget) to save up that 6 months of cushion. Of course, that's at our current income levels which were not the same 5 years ago.

We have minimal debt, basically just a mortgage and an truck loan. But also don't have health insurance because I'm a small business owner so every time my kids go to the dentist it's a $500 bill. Last year my daughter had to get some teeth pulled and that ate up some savings. I'd venture that we're pretty fiscally responsible and blessed to be in a better situation than many, but saving up that amount of cash is an extremely difficult task. And that's not to mention that I'd likely have that tied up in a retirement or stock account (because really, why not earn a buck on your savings?), both of which tanked recently.

On that note, if you have more than 6 months saved, maybe you're saving in excess (as opposed to living in excess) and need to be doing a little more giving LOL (sarcasm font, etc.)

I'm thankful that there's a good chance I won't "need" the stimulus checks because my business is still busy. So, on the front, I'm against it. However, I'm compassionate enough to recognize that there will be a lot of people who will "need" the money. I have several friends that have lost their jobs already and the cash will likely help them out.

 

[Ben Lamb]

As usual, Randy says it mor eloquently than I.

I'm struggling with the bailouts for airlines, oil & gas, etc. These industries have been some of the biggest welfare recipients in our nation for a long, long time. Meanwhile, people are close to being homeless. I'm fine with checks to citizens and I'd be happy to see some kind of basic means testing if it doens't create a mind-numbingly slow bureaucracy to implement. I'm fine with stimulus for small businesses that employ up to a certain number of people, because those are the businesses that will suffer the most, and the employees that will suffer the most.

We've created a system that is both wonderful and terrible. We can either use stop-gap measures to make the hole we're in a little less deep, or we can start to look at ways for Americans to keep their money in their pocket, like student loan forgiveness, single payer healthcare, increased regulation of wall street, etc. America should be for it's people, not it's corporations.

 

[smw110136]

The reality is lots of Americans don’t have the ability to build savings at all.

That's true. But

What if they did everything you said but had high medical bills in the fall - had a layoff - etc. You hugely overstate the simplicity of your advice. Many many people are diligent and frugal, but still get crushed when bad events happen.

I don't disagree with either of you or the facts you presented.

I just asked a question. Maybe I am in the minority with that thinking. I would just want to make sure I took care of my kids above all else in times like these. The ability to save money for a rainy day would be one of those considerations before I had a child.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Great post, @ajricketts

 

[Doublecluck]

I will write this off as an 'oops'. The government does print money. Literally and figuratively. And they are going to print a lot more of it. Like the saying "there are no atheists in a foxhole", "there are no libertarians in an economic crisis".
I find it strange that some people are for tax cuts ("that's my money" argument) but are against the government sending out checks. Money is fungible. There is no real difference

I don't like bailouts on principle, but they have been lucrative. There is a reason Fannie and Freddie are still owned by the government. They are cash cows.
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

I think it’s pretty obvious what I meant, the government creates no product, provides no service to create its own wealth, it cannot give anyone something without taking something from Someone. Sure it can print money and sure it can give money out, but that has an effect and consequences.

 

[Exhausted]

As usual, Randy says it mor eloquently than I.

I'm struggling with the bailouts for airlines, oil & gas, etc. These industries have been some of the biggest welfare recipients in our nation for a long, long time. Meanwhile, people are close to being homeless. I'm fine with checks to citizens and I'd be happy to see some kind of basic means testing if it doens't create a mind-numbingly slow bureaucracy to implement. I'm fine with stimulus for small businesses that employ up to a certain number of people, because those are the businesses that will suffer the most, and the employees that will suffer the most.

We've created a system that is both wonderful and terrible. We can either use stop-gap measures to make the hole we're in a little less deep, or we can start to look at ways for Americans to keep their money in their pocket, like student loan forgiveness, single payer healthcare, increased regulation of wall street, etc. America should be for it's people, not it's corporations.

I'm struggling with the bailouts a little bit as well. I was already in the finance industry when the banks were bailed out and I personally would have liked to see some of the bigger banks fail. But at the time I was a 21 year old snot nosed brat still trying to figure out how the world worked lol. I think there is some benefit to allowing huge companies to fail (if they've not adequately prepared due to, for example, paying their execs millions of dollars a year) and letting smaller companies rise up and take their place. Plus, how many of the companies are like Apple, hoarding cash and funneling income through other countries rather than owning up and paying tax on their real income. If they have cash, let them exhaust it before we bail them out.

I'm still working through a lot on these so I don't really know what I think. I know that there are experts at this stuff for a reason. It probably doesn't help that I have a dad and sister that both work for JetBlue so I'm emotionally invested.

 

[Mallardsx2]

care to explain how someone in a lower paying job, that barely has enough to cover the basics, like rent, heat for your house, water to drink, food to eat, clothes to wear, a car to get to work, retirement contributions, etc. is supposed to ALSO save up 6 months of reserves?

If anyone is sitting here reading this I can save you $1000/year by shutting your internet to your house off. I lived without it for 25 years.
If anyone sitting here reading this on their phone, I can save you $1000/year but not having a cell phone bill. I lived without it for 25 years
No alcohol- Save you ~$500/year I lived without it for 21 years.
No smoking- ~$2555/year I lived without it for 35 years.
No cable satellite TY- Saved you $1500/year. I still to this day live without it.

There are ways to save and still live.

Few people reading this post are incapable of saving enough cash over the course of a couple years to cover 6 months of their bills as long as they live within their means.....
But those same people have a 4 wheeler, have a side by side, have a camper, smoke, drink, eat out, go golfing, weekly haircuts, unnecessary driving, overpriced trucks and cars..etc etc

A person has to individually decide how to spend their money appropriately and IMHO should not be rewarded for the bad behavior when they cannot spend their money appropriately.

My grandparents both had low paying jobs and when they retired they lived on their social security checks for 30 years with little to no savings in the bank. They ALWAYS had 6 months of bills tucked away in a bible for situations like this. So dont tell me it cant be done.

PS: They had NONE of the items listed above. It was all about just being happy being together and they did that for 60 years and still managed to raise 4 children.

Its just a materialistic world today where people think they need to blow their money on the next best thing. Reality is that if you cant afford it you shouldn't try to own it.

Having said all that, I am not trying to get by on minimum wage. Have I in my life, yes. And it was difficult.

 

[Ben Lamb]

@Mallardsx2 - phone & internet are utilities in this day and age, not luxuries. I can't do my job without them, most people couldn't do their jobs these days w/o them. This isn't 1980 anymore.

 

[Nameless Range]

That is exactly what I intend to do. Two days ago I stopped by my favorite little coffee/pastry shop. They were on a skeletal crew. Only take out allowed. Since everyone is working at home, nobody was there. Normally the tip cup is flowing over. There was nothing in it that morning. They know my order and had it ready as I walked up to the counter. I left $20 as a tip, walked out thinking how screwed these young folks are who I know are working this as their side jobs to make ends meet in an expensive place like Bozeman.

Yesterday was an even pointed reminder. I drove into the parking lot and noticed a new sign on the door. "Closed until further notice." Now, I can't leave a tip or support them. These young people are screwed. If one wonders why they seem somewhat disenfranchised by the system, it is times like this that only serve to add to that feeling. They are working their asses off. They are waiting to catch a good break and they all seem talented and ambitious enough that when that break comes, they will ride that wave. Yet, they see a lot of other industries being bailed out, at whose expense.

I'm at a point in my life with no debt, rental property providing monthly cash flow, and other sources of income that I don't need this "stimulus." My wife and I each have our own charitable soft spots. I suspect most of ours will go to the local food bank or to places we know are suffering in the same way we would have been 30 years ago with a baby, college loans, and not having been in the workforce long enough to start saving for the rainy days.

I know there are plenty of kids who rely on school lunch programs who are probably not getting much to eat right now. The Food Bank has always been a group that has been on the front lines of that battle. That seems a better place for this stimulus than the Newberg bank accounts.

Personally, my biggest focus right now is the eight employees I have in this outdoor media operation. For me, this is a passion. For them, this is the rent or mortgage payment, the grocery bills, and other basic necessities. I have no problem with any of them getting this stimulus check. They need it. And, given they are all under 35, odds are that their generation is going to have to pay the future cost of this stimulus package.

One thing I read about that seemed like a good idea: For a lot of the businesses that are currently closed, particularly if they have the ability to do this online, you could still buy gift cards from them. That would inject a bit of revenue into their businesses.

 

[the nikster]

I believe the checks would be meant to serve 2 results.
it would give families extra income to spend in times of need and stimulate local businesses.
if we all buy stocks while they are low with the check then we are self-serving and not helping to fulfill the second half of the equation.
I will take the money (which I do not need at this time thankfully) and disperse it to needy local business as I see fit. Better than letting politicians decide who gets it.

 

[BuzzH]

If anyone is sitting here reading this I can save you $1000/year by shutting your internet to your house off. I lived without it for 25 years.
If anyone sitting here reading this on their phone, I can save you $1000/year but not having a cell phone bill. I lived without it for 25 years
No alcohol- Save you ~$500/year I lived without it for 21 years.
No smoking- ~$2555/year I lived without it for 35 years.
No cable satellite TY- Saved you $1500/year. I still to this day live without it.

There are ways to save and still live.

Few people reading this post are incapable of saving enough cash over the course of a couple years to cover 6 months of their bills as long as they live within their means.....
But those same people have a 4 wheeler, have a side by side, have a camper, smoke, drink, eat out, go golfing, weekly haircuts, unecesssary driving, overpriced trucks and cars..etc etc

A person has to individually decide how to spend their money appropriately and IMHO should not be rewarded for the bad behavior when they cannot spend their money appropriately.

My grandparents both had low paying jobs and when they retired they lived on their social security checks for 30 years with little to no savings in the bank. They ALWAYS had 6 months of bills tucked away in a bible for situations like this. So dont tell me it cant be done.

PS: They had NONE of the items listed above. It was all about just being happy being together and they did that for 60 years and still managed to raise 4 children.

Its just a materialistic world today where people think they need to blow their money on the next best thing. Reality is that if you cant afford it you shouldn't try to own it.

You know for sure all the people that have low paying jobs all drink $500 a year in alcohol, smoke $2500 and all your other ridiculous claims?

Like I said, get over yourself.

The reason your grandparents were able to make ends meet is because they didn't live in the same time. Things were cheaper, dollar went further, and there was a huge middle class.

Try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute.

 

[Scrappy]

I'm going to donate my Trump check.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Yeah, you're about ready to digress your ass out the door. If you want to rant about your own personal politics, that is what Facebook is for.

FWIW, I am not fan of the Speaker, but I also think Hunt Talk can be a place of worthwhile discussion while we are all stuck at home or in a state of flux. I'm not inclined to let it be polluted with shit like you have been posting.

Your right.

I edited my posts.

Apologies.

 

[Mallardsx2]

You know for sure all the people that have low paying jobs all drink $500 a year in alcohol, smoke $2500 and all your other ridiculous claims?

Like I said, get over yourself.

The reason your grandparents were able to make ends meet is because they didn't live in the same time. Things were cheaper, dollar went further, and there was a huge middle class.

Try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute.

You are right, the dollar certainly went further. There is no arguing that.

 

[smw110136]

If anyone is sitting here reading this I can save you $1000/year by shutting your internet to your house off. I lived without it for 25 years.
If anyone sitting here reading this on their phone, I can save you $1000/year but not having a cell phone bill. I lived without it for 25 years
No alcohol- Save you ~$500/year I lived without it for 21 years.
No smoking- ~$2555/year I lived without it for 35 years.
No cable satellite TY- Saved you $1500/year. I still to this day live without it.

There are ways to save and still live.

Few people reading this post are incapable of saving enough cash over the course of a couple years to cover 6 months of their bills as long as they live within their means.....
But those same people have a 4 wheeler, have a side by side, have a camper, smoke, drink, eat out, go golfing, weekly haircuts, unecesssary driving, overpriced trucks and cars..etc etc

A person has to individually decide how to spend their money appropriately and IMHO should not be rewarded for the bad behavior when they cannot spend their money appropriately.

My grandparents both had low paying jobs and when they retired they lived on their social security checks for 30 years with little to no savings in the bank. They ALWAYS had 6 months of bills tucked away in a bible for situations like this. So dont tell me it cant be done.

PS: They had NONE of the items listed above. It was all about just being happy being together and they did that for 60 years and still managed to raise 4 children.

Its just a materialistic world today where people think they need to blow their money on the next best thing. Reality is that if you cant afford it you shouldn't try to own it.

I was looking for a good .gif of a "broad brush" but then I realized I had already wasted too much time responding to this post.

 

[VikingsGuy]

. . . then I realized I had already wasted too much time responding to this post.

Sadly. This could have been an interesting discussion - that once again devolved due to some of the same folks with the same ax.

 

[SAJ-99]

I think it’s pretty obvious what I meant, the government creates no product, provides no service to create its own wealth, it cannot give anyone something without taking something from Someone. Sure it can print money and sure it can give money out, but that has an effect and consequences.

Hopefully the effect is positive, and oddly we haven't seen the consequences, even minimally. I don't think anyone has a solid explanation on why the Fed can create $4Trillon out of thin air and buy bonds and inflation remains practically nonexistent.