Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[sacountry]

I can't get over the fact that MOGA had all the sway with the Legislature, the Governor's office, and the Commission and we have Albus and Paschke who sit on the board of directors and have spent years talking about revamping the management structure- Instead of meaningful and long lasting improvements we just end up with an extra 3000+ combo tags and additional preference points for nonresidents for outfitters that apparently can't figure out how the hell a preference point system works.

It would be absolutely hilarious if it wasn't so goddamn sad and embarrassing. It's like someone cracking the first Yo Mama joke while the Titanic band plays on in the background.

The extra tags do seem to fly in the face of one of Eric's beefs about the east side slaughtering of mule deer.

In a diverse group of Sportsmen, I honestly question why the concept of fair chase doesn't transcend from the field to Helena as a common denominator in us all, but then again it's greed that gets in the way of fair chase in the field so too it gets in the way in Helena. I guess I just answered my own question.

I do also struggle with the concept that outfitters boost local economies to the point that we need to protect them with a handout. Resident hunters from big towns like Missoula, Billings, Great Falls bring way more money into Lima, Winnet, Broadus, or any town along the highline. We need to be giving those hunters some incentive to spread the wealth. Maybe resident DIY hunters should get 3 preference points for hunting 100 miles from their home? Or maybe NR outfitted hunters should have to pay for our resident hunting licenses through $5000 guaranteed combo tags revenue. Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket! Being ridiculous to show just how ridiculous HB637 is.

 

[antlerradar]

Outfitting on private land is going to pretty much done and over with in the next 10-15 years, as ranchers are aging out and selling to NR absentee owners. This has been a topic of discussion amongst us for a few years.

You may be right. I can think of close to 250 thousand acres near me that in the last 20 years has gone from outfitted to hunting clubs or absentee owners not allowing much of any hunting.
Block management is going to be facing the same issue.

 

[Eric Albus]

Eric albus u have said several times in diff threads that u grew up hunting public lands. How in your eyes has the public diminished or thrived in your opinion. And when if u did get permission when u were younger how did that happen. What needs to change or anything.

Should the $$$$ decide for the 1% or should we try to benifit everyone.

Great questions.

I will speak only to Reg. 6 public lands. I have only hunted western Mt 2 times once for elk, unsuccessful, and once for moose, area 360, successfully.
The public land in 6 has been over hunted and overcrowded, especially the archery elk rut, and the last 15 days general season. I have already been in contact with some of the commission about changing season structures. I want to sit down with some of the “opposition” and finally all be on the same page to make some meaningful changes. The R hunters are going to have to give up the 5 week rut encompassing general season. If we don’t make some changes Montana will continue to be known as a 3rd world country to the biologists of bordering states.
Will changes hurt me outfitting wise? Yes, but do right by the resource and everything else falls into place.

The changes I’ve seen in access are mostly a direct result of hunter behavior and anger at FWP.

 

[Eric Albus]

You may be right. I can think of close to 250 thousand acres near me that in the last 20 years has gone from outfitted to hunting clubs or absentee owners not allowing much of any hunting.
Block management is going to be facing the same issue.

May be right? ??

I’ve been outfitting for 30 years and can tell you that it’s for a fact. Hunt clubs/absentee landowners and owners using “leased out” instead of telling people no, saving it for myself and family make up way more acres than we are leasing. We just make soft target for the opposition.

 

[tjones]

I’ve been outfitting for 30 years

And you still need set asides?

 

[Eric Albus]

And you still need set asides?

You don’t understand the business.
Inability to secure license costs business. Hunters look to states with consistent licensure. Every other year is not an attractive option to most clientele. I can make it work, but certainly don’t like the rotation of clients.

 

[BuckRut]

You don’t understand the business.
Inability to secure license costs business. Hunters look to states with consistent licensure. Every other year is not an attractive option to most clientele. I can make it work, but certainly don’t like the rotation of clients.

That's kind of like an auto shop saying "I don't like the fact that modern motor oils last so long these days. We should make it mandatory that people change their oil every 3,000 miles like it used to be." The demand for the tags has increased and it is not right to pull tags aside for those willing to pay more for them.

 

[BuzzH]

Great questions.

I will speak only to Reg. 6 public lands. I have only hunted western Mt 2 times once for elk, unsuccessful, and once for moose, area 360, successfully.
The public land in 6 has been over hunted and overcrowded, especially the archery elk rut, and the last 15 days general season. I have already been in contact with some of the commission about changing season structures. I want to sit down with some of the “opposition” and finally all be on the same page to make some meaningful changes. The R hunters are going to have to give up the 5 week rut encompassing general season. If we don’t make some changes Montana will continue to be known as a 3rd world country to the biologists of bordering states.
Will changes hurt me outfitting wise? Yes, but do right by the resource and everything else falls into place.

The changes I’ve seen in access are mostly a direct result of hunter behavior and anger at FWP.

How are 3000 more tags going to help anything in Region 6 and elsewhere with over hunting and overcrowded public land?

You aren't serious about fixing anything but the amount of cash in your wallet, lets get that straight.

 

[tjones]

You don’t understand the business.
Inability to secure license costs business. Hunters look to states with consistent licensure. Every other year is not an attractive option to most clientele. I can make it work, but certainly don’t like the rotation of clients.

You think this is unique to outfitters? You really need to get out more.

 

[BlakeA]

I can make it work, but certainly don’t like the rotation of clients.

Yeah, that has to be quite the inconvenience.

Can you imagine a world where if you were not guaranteed the same clients each and every year you would actually have to work at selling your product each year? What a crazy concept. A business owner would actually have to work and adapt to the times to keep up with the competition.

 

[Hunt West]

You don’t understand the business.
Inability to secure license costs business. Hunters look to states with consistent licensure. Every other year is not an attractive option to most clientele. I can make it work, but certainly don’t like the rotation of clients.

How on earth do those poor bastards in AZ and WY ever make it outfitting.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

So now it’s inconvenience? I didn’t realize we had moved on from the theme of “this is for the resident DIY guy”.

 

[RobertD]

You don’t understand the business.
Inability to secure license costs business. Hunters look to states with consistent licensure. Every other year is not an attractive option to most clientele. I can make it work, but certainly don’t like the rotation of clients.

Saying the quiet part out loud.

 

[BlazerBeam]

So by your own admission, you have time and energy for meaningless and impotent internet bitching, but not to actually do anything of substance. Wow.

The reason building a bigger pie takes so long is because so many hunters are too lazy to help and expect someone else to do all the hard work. You being a prime example, apparently.

Correct. I am not trying to pretend that I am spending a bunch of of time doing things of "substance". But I would say that that is exactly what most people are pretending they are doing, without actually doing it. "internet bitching" as you call it. You do the same from what I have read from you. I would like to know what you have done that is "of substance". Jerking off to an episode of Fresh Tracks does not count btw. And I would certainly say I am the exact opposite of lazy. Like I said I am heavily invested in other endeavors. Hunting never used to be something that you had to always be looking over your shoulder and worry about protecting. You just did it. And it wasn't so damn political! Many don't know what the hunting culture used to be like 30 years ago. But thanks to people looking to make money from hunting, the culture, and hence the pressure on wildlife has drastically changed. Hence my internet bitching, which is all that I have time for. Maybe start a thread with ideas for what the average Joe can do to help. My first post would be to bitch more about people who are looking to indirectly make a dollar off of deer and elk. Also I would seriously like to know what you think this below does for increasing the pie? All of this youtube content, University of Elk hunting course, GoHunt Insider, TagHub, etc, does not focus one bit on increasing the pie. Why? because that is not what people are truly interested in. That is not what sells. What DOES sell? Entertainment, as well as Gear and knowlege that helps one be more effective at killing western big game. Personally I would like to see more people care about that and stop pretending that it does not exist or that it does not really have an effect on the pressure on animals. My crap! If I see another article on "how to hunt pressured elk" I think I will barf.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Jerking off to an episode of Fresh Tracks does not count btw.

Was this what happened to Mudranger?

 

[The Hedgehog]

Was this what happened to Mudranger?

Maybe that’s why I haven’t seen any black bears this spring.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Correct. I am not trying to pretend that I am spending a bunch of of time doing things of "substance". But I would say that that is exactly what most people are pretending they are doing, without actually doing it. "internet bitching" as you call it. You do the same from what I have read from you. I would like to know what you have done that is "of substance". Jerking off to an episode of Fresh Tracks does not count btw. And I would certainly say I am the exact opposite of lazy. Like I said I am heavily invested in other endeavors. Hunting never used to be something that you had to always be looking over your shoulder and worry about protecting. You just did it. And it wasn't so damn political! Many don't know what the hunting culture used to be like 30 years ago. But thanks to people looking to make money from hunting, the culture, and hence the pressure on wildlife has drastically changed. Hence my internet bitching, which is all that I have time for. Maybe start a thread with ideas for what the average Joe can do to help. My first post would be to bitch more about people who are looking to indirectly make a dollar off of deer and elk. Also I would seriously like to know what you think this below does for increasing the pie? All of this youtube content, University of Elk hunting course, GoHunt Insider, TagHub, etc, does not focus one bit on increasing the pie. Why? because that is not what people are truly interested in. That is not what sells. What DOES sell? Entertainment, as well as Gear and knowlege that helps one be more effective at killing western big game. Personally I would like to see more people care about that and stop pretending that it does not exist or that it does not really have an effect on the pressure on animals. My crap! If I see another article on "how to hunt pressured elk" I think I will barf.

Finding positive areas to contribute your energy to will do a lot to alleviate your anger issues.

 

[tjones]

Many don't know what the hunting culture used to be like 30 years ago.

Son, I have boots that have hunted more than 30 years.

I would like to know what you have done that is "of substance".

Unless you are attending FWP season setting meetings, belong to your local sportsmen group, writing legislators and testifying in Helena at commission meetings and before the legislature I would suggest you be careful on huntalk what you suspect folks do or don't do.

Most on here do all of the above and a lot more and what little I know about Hunting Wife she is out doing something of substances for wildlife every day.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Correct. I am not trying to pretend that I am spending a bunch of of time doing things of "substance". But I would say that that is exactly what most people are pretending they are doing, without actually doing it. "internet bitching" as you call it. You do the same from what I have read from you. I would like to know what you have done that is "of substance".

Boy, would my husband be shocked to find that I jerk off to Fresh Tracks...

What do I do of substance? Let’s see...
20+ year career managing wildlife and habitat, habitat restoration, working on applied research to help find ways to grow the pie, performing environmental education to hopefully have a more scientifically literate public, working with NGOs and other agencies to partner on projects to address all kinds of wildlife and habitat issues, worked with private landowners and ag producers to implement conservation and rangeland health programs on the ground, work on conservation easement programs....

Then, when I get off work, I’ve volunteered on projects with conservation organizations, been a Hunters Ed instructor, donated money to conservation organizations to help get more things done on the ground, called and emailed elected officials ad nauseum, attended public meetings for various agencies on wildlife and habitat topics.

That said, I do a lot less than some folks on this forum. And I still find time (sometimes) to Internet bitch.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Boy, would my husband be shocked to find that I jerk off to Fresh Tracks...

What do I do of substance? Let’s see...
20+ year career managing wildlife and habitat, habitat restoration, working on applied research to help find ways to grow the pie, performing environmental education to hopefully have a more scientifically literate public, working with NGOs and other agencies to partner on projects to address all kinds of wildlife and habitat issues, worked with private landowners and ag producers to implement conservation and rangeland health programs on the ground, work on conservation easement programs....

Then, when I get off work, I’ve volunteered on projects with conservation organizations, been a Hunters Ed instructor, donated money to conservation organizations to help get more things done on the ground, called and emailed elected officials ad nauseum, attended public meetings for various agencies on wildlife and habitat topics.

That said, I do a lot less than some folks on this forum. And I still find time (sometimes) to Internet bitch.

I think you have earned the credibility to speak your opinion about wildlife issues without having said opinion described as “internet bitching.”