Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[mtmuley]

I couldn't hunt it before APR, but I can now.

I keep hearing that it won't last long but no basis given by anyone, just the usual hot air. Yet here we are, still allowed access to recreate and hunt on APR lands.

If APR won't let me on in the future, that is their right as a landowner. Same as any other private landowner in south Phillips/Valley.

Shitty argument.

Two years ago I was denied permission to elk hunt part of the APR. mtmuley

 

[mtmiller]

Outfitters are paying fees to FS, BLM, CMR, State for the privilege of use of these lands.

How much are you paying the BLM/year?

https://eplanning.blm.gov/eplanning-ui/search?searchText=milk%20river%20outfitters

 

[mtmiller]

Two years ago I was denied permission to elk hunt part of the APR. mtmuley

So you didn't hunt APR? Did they give a reason?

 

[mtmuley]

So you didn't hunt APR? Did they give a reason?

I did not hunt APR. Supposedly they were evaluating their elk hunting policy. I talked directly to the hunt manager. mtmuley

 

[Derek44]

What needs to happen is more organizations like APR need to be buying private property. They're great, they place a high value on wildlife on their property, allow public access, increase access to surrounding public lands, allow public hunting and don't allow outfitting. They invest in Montana, their employees live in Montana and support the local economies. They also help educate the public on how important large tracts of habitat matter. The upside to APR and groups like them, there is no downside.

Which reminds me, I need to send them another donation.

From what I’m hearing, I like their platform and direction. Sorry for the stupid question but who is APR, and where do I send my check

 

[BuzzH]

From what I’m hearing, I like their platform and direction. Sorry for the stupid question but who is APR, and where do I send my check

American Prairie Reserve...you can find their website. Rinella did a podcast with APR as well...worth a listen.

 

[BuzzH]

Two years ago I was denied permission to elk hunt part of the APR. mtmuley

They've been enrolled in Block on a lot of their properties for quite a while, ever since I drew my first bull tag in that area (which was 2010 I think).

The place you probably asked about was being evaluated on how they wanted to proceed as they had just acquired the property. Last year they had everything figured out and its a quality experience.

Dad and I spent quite a bit of time talking with Dan S. really good guy.

 

[Hunting Wife]

You really don’t understand. No, when we are done outfitting lands being sold we are not moving to public land. The permits allocated to hunt public are set and they aren’t giving more out.
I probably should not be as aggravated by this as I am, but before making statements like that do some research or at least ask someone before attacking me.

Not an attack on you at all. Simply trying to make sense of the continued conflicting statements by proponents of this set-aside business. I’m sorry if you’re aggravated. So am I, because all the circular arguments are mind-numbing. I feel like we are being asked to have faith that those who do have permits for public land aren’t going to try to find some way to recoup losses from private via the public. I find it hard to believe there would not be additional shenanigans in that regard when the time comes. So in 10-15 years, private leases will be kaput and all those DIY non-residents will be hunting the public anyway? I can only assume some other government bailout will be necessary at that time. I’m still not seeing the benefit we resident hunters are reaping.

I’m not trying to pick on you. But the shifting talking points are impossible to follow.

I put my energy into working in other sectors of the economy to provide for my family. I hunt for personal satisfaction and to feed my family. I don't have the time or energy to devote to "conservation or DIY advocacy" or whatever you call it. But I do have the time and energy to bitch about youtubers and people who sell hunting. Even donating to organizations that claim that the bulk of their work is for habitat, etc. are still in it to make a dollar. I am telling you that a movement against hunting as an "industry" and the involvement of money in it for personal gain is what I believe will help to solve some of these problems.

people keep preaching this concept of "make a bigger pie", but the rate at which that happens or is happening is 5 times slower than the rate at which hunters are being recruited and the rate that people are being sold the ability to shoot further, know country, and understand animal behavior. So what will have to end up giving in is hunting opportunity. Stop the money part of hunting and maybe you can build your bigger pie at a faster rate than the pressure being applied to animals.

So by your own admission, you have time and energy for meaningless and impotent internet bitching, but not to actually do anything of substance. Wow.

The reason building a bigger pie takes so long is because so many hunters are too lazy to help and expect someone else to do all the hard work. You being a prime example, apparently.

I’ll not waste any more of your precious Internet time.

 

[Derek44]

American Prairie Reserve...you can find their website. Rinella did a podcast with APR as well...worth a listen.

Thanks Buzz. I’ll be looking into that!!

 

[mtmuley]

They've been enrolled in Block on a lot of their properties for quite a while, ever since I drew my first bull tag in that area (which was 2010 I think).

The place you probably asked about was being evaluated on how they wanted to proceed as they had just acquired the property. Last year they had everything figured out and its a quality experience.

Dad and I spent quite a bit of time talking with Dan S. really good guy.

Hope it stays that way. I was surprised they denied me. Maybe it was because I had a bull tag. I avoided the APR after that. mtmuley

 

[RobertD]

I hunt for personal satisfaction and to feed my family. I don't have the time or energy to devote to "conservation or DIY advocacy" or whatever you call it. But I do have the time and energy to bitch about youtubers and people who sell hunting.

So it's okay for you to gain something from hunting, while admitting you will do nothing to preserve it for the future.

But the guys who are out working to improve access, build a bigger pie etc. MAY happen to benefit personally in some way so their whole effort is tainted.

Think about what you are saying here.

 

[BWALKER77]

You can ban outfitters and it won’t change a thing.
There will be no opening of gates allowing free access. Most of the places in Montana are selling to out of state absentee owners. Most of them are NOT even allowing the outfitter who hunted them to continue. One outfitter I know used to run 60 hunters a year, now due to the places he hunted selling he runs 10-15 hunts.
The point I’m making is Outfitter’s are leasing less than 6.2M acres, but we have the target on our back. Landowners who don’t want to deal with the public tell door knocking hunters “leased out” hunters assume its to an outfitter when the place may not even be leased, or is leased to R/NR hunt club.

I can understand the angst of NR DIY guys having to draw and NR Outfitted clients being able to get license every year, and I can understand the R hunter who has family that can't draw but every other year not liking NR outfitter clients being able to license every year. If I remove my outfitters hat and look at the situation from an R hunters perspective, I would much rather see NR have to go with an outfitter. In most cases they are going to be hunting private land I can't access, or going into the backcountry via horses that I can't/won't/don't access. The NR hunters most of us are taking the hunting public of Montana doesn't see, except at the processor or gas station.

I agree with everything you said.

 

[Eric Albus]

Prove it...

It’ll happen. When Jeff H. was director he told a director of the MDF that when the wrong board of directors gets power the hunting will end.
APR might be fine for now, but the end game is no hunting, grizzly bears, wolves, lions taking care of wildlife populations.

 

[Eric Albus]

I agree with everything you said.

You had me from hello! Lol.

 

[Eric Albus]

I couldn't hunt it before APR, but I can now.

I keep hearing that it won't last long but no basis given by anyone, just the usual hot air. Yet here we are, still allowed access to recreate and hunt on APR lands.

If APR won't let me on in the future, that is their right as a landowner. Same as any other private landowner in south Phillips/Valley.

For now yes, enjoy it. It won’t last. Remember I told you so. It may not be in my lifetime, as the APR is patient and the Buffalo are slow.

 

[Eric Albus]

I put my energy into working in other sectors of the economy to provide for my family. I hunt for personal satisfaction and to feed my family. I don't have the time or energy to devote to "conservation or DIY advocacy" or whatever you call it. But I do have the time and energy to bitch about youtubers and people who sell hunting. Even donating to organizations that claim that the bulk of their work is for habitat, etc. are still in it to make a dollar. I am telling you that a movement against hunting as an "industry" and the involvement of money in it for personal gain is what I believe will help to solve some of these problems.

people keep preaching this concept of "make a bigger pie", but the rate at which that happens or is happening is 5 times slower than the rate at which hunters are being recruited and the rate that people are being sold the ability to shoot further, know country, and understand animal behavior. So what will have to end up giving in is hunting opportunity. Stop the money part of hunting and maybe you can build your bigger pie at a faster rate than the pressure being applied to animals.

There is a movement against hunting that you have correct. The sad thing is you can’t stop the money. If wildlife and wild places held no value there would be none left.
Imagine, if elephants, rhinoceros, leopards, ect. held no value. There would be none left on this earth.

 

[BuzzH]

It’ll happen. When Jeff H. was director he told a director of the MDF that when the wrong board of directors gets power the hunting will end.
APR might be fine for now, but the end game is no hunting, grizzly bears, wolves, lions taking care of wildlife populations.

More hot air...

Anything else you heard second hand?

 

[mtmiller]

For now yes, enjoy it. It won’t last. Remember I told you so. It may not be in my lifetime, as the APR is patient and the Buffalo are slow.

So after you are dead it might be the same as it was a decade ago? Got it.

 

[Schaaf]

I can't get over the fact that MOGA had all the sway with the Legislature, the Governor's office, and the Commission and we have Albus and Paschke who sit on the board of directors and have spent years talking about revamping the management structure- Instead of meaningful and long lasting improvements we just end up with an extra 3000+ combo tags and additional preference points for nonresidents for outfitters that apparently can't figure out how the hell a preference point system works.

It would be absolutely hilarious if it wasn't so goddamn sad and embarrassing. It's like someone cracking the first Yo Mama joke while the Titanic band plays on in the background.

 

[Walkalot]

Eric albus u have said several times in diff threads that u grew up hunting public lands. How in your eyes has the public diminished or thrived in your opinion. And when if u did get permission when u were younger how did that happen. What needs to change or anything.

Should the $$$$ decide for the 1% or should we try to benifit everyone.