New gun on the horizon

[nhenry]

List of gun terminology confusions that irritate me more than "silencer" or "inherently accurate":

Confusing "accuracy" and "precision"
Confusing "caliber" and "cartridge"
Confusing "public lands" with "land owned by the government that I can't hunt on"
Confusing "preference/bonus points" and "state-sponsored Ponzi scheme"

I have a thread for these.
https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/stuff-you-dont-like-for-no-good-reason.311386/

 

[VikingsGuy]

I have a thread for these.
https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/stuff-you-dont-like-for-no-good-reason.311386/

Ohh, but in these cases, I have good reason

 

[nhenry]

Ohh, but in these cases, I have good reason

Not like people didn't use that thread for grievances anyways

 

[VikingsGuy]

Pre-emptive thread sidetrack complaint . . .

I stand by my past observation - 99% of useful answers to an OP's question are found within the first 25 replies. After that, the thread is no longer the property of the OP and instead is fair game for wherever the "community" wants to take it. Just track a conversation between 4 guys at a bar. Start with "how do you like that new F150, Steve?" and 10 minutes later someone is about ready to throw a bunch in response to a remark that Peyton Manning isn't half the QB Dan Marino was. This is as it always has been, and always should be.

 

[nhenry]

^

99% of useful answers to an OP's question are found within the first 25 replies

So anyways I think he should get a 28 Nosler

 

[EastTNHunter]

List of gun terminology confusions that irritate me more than "silencer" or "inherently accurate":

Confusing "accuracy" and "precision"
Confusing "caliber" and "cartridge"
Confusing "public lands" with "land owned by the government that I can't hunt on"
Confusing "preference/bonus points" and "state-sponsored Ponzi scheme"

How about confusing “round, cartridge, ammunition” with “bullet” ?

 

[Dougfirtree]

What was this thread's original post about, again?

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[BuckRut]

3-4” at 100?? That’s a pretty high zero bud. 200 yard shots would require some though also.
Most large magnum cartridges especially with heavy bullets I’d recommend 2-2.5” at 100 at most.

It is a bit but like I said you don't have to guess range. That 3"-4" at 100 grows to just over 5" at 200 but you are never more than 5" high or 5" low at any yardage up to 400-500 yards. That's well within the vitals of an elk.

 

[brockel]

@mtmuley
I think the .28 may be the best all around cartridge you can get for big game.

Curious on why you think that. Yes the 28 does exactly what it was designed to do fairly well but 95% of most hunters will never need that.

 

[brockel]

Lining up a new rifle for next season..I think I’ve got it narrowed down to a 28 Nosler or 300 RUM.

Looking for opinions here good bad or
anywhere in between as I’m not too much of a gun geek myself. What I want out of this next gun is something I can confidently shoot in cross-canyon situations say 600 yards for
Both mule deer and elk. Also of note, I don’t reload.

Either one is going to accomplish the goal you are looking for with plenty left in the tank. 28 is going to be a little more forgiving on the recoil side. Both factory rounds are expensive. Flip a coin

 

[Don Fischer]

Lining up a new rifle for next season..I think I’ve got it narrowed down to a 28 Nosler or 300 RUM.

Looking for opinions here good bad or
anywhere in between as I’m not too much of a gun geek myself. What I want out of this next gun is something I can confidently shoot in cross-canyon situations say 600 yards for
Both mule deer and elk. Also of note, I don’t reload.

From what you wrote here I'd say no cartridge is gonna help you. You said, "something I can confidently shoot in cross canyon situations say 600 yds,,,,". At ranges like that the cartridge is nowhere a critical as the expertise of the guy pulling the trigger! Give a world class shooter at 1000 yds my old 243 loaded with 87gr bullet's and a box or two of ammo to practice with and he'll probably be able to do what you think you want, with a 243 no less!

My suggestion would e to get something like a 30-06 and learn to reload it. Go with heavy bullets, 180gr, and learn to shoot then. Ya never know, in 4 or 5 yrs you may find you can make the 600 yds shot with the 30-06! Or maybe you'd simply step up to a 300 Win Mag. I have owned a 7mm Rem Mag, two 338 Win Mags and shot a few 300 Win Mags, never happen again!

Looking at what your wanting for myself. First drop the ability to shoot 600yds across the canyon to kill an elk or deer! Longest range I consider at big game is 300 yds. Not much to brad about but at 300 yds I can hold on where I want to hit and only be about 9" low max. Can do it with my 30-06, My 6.5x06, my 6.5x55, my 25-06 and even both my 243's. You really want to learn to shoot at game at 600yds? Get either a 30-06 and shoot 180gr Hot Core bullet's, a 280 Rem and shoot 160gr Hot core bullets, or the 6.5x06 and shoot 140gr Hot Cores. What you decide to shoot will not make much difference if you learn to shoot at that distance! get a good range finder. I have a leupold supposed to be good for 650yds, it ain't good enough! Try to range something like a deer at 650 yds with it and for all you know you got a rock in front of it or behind it. If you actually get a proper range and it 5 87yds, how much drop you gonna have there? Your $1500 scope probably won't tell you!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

OP - i'm pretty squarely on the side of modest cartridges, even for long range, compared to super overbore magnums. Lots of folks think they need to buy some hot rod cartridge if they are going to shoot a long ways. It seems like an effort to buy competency when they'd get a lot farther shooting something they can put a higher volume of rounds down range without torching a barrel, spending a fortune on ammo, and getting beat up with recoil. That way they'd actually understand why they miss or impact vs buying something with better numbers on paper.

One could take a look at all of the competitive long range shooting disciplines and what is dominating. It's modest, consistent, predictable cartridges. 6 BR variants dominating PRS, and some Benchrest/Fclass categories. 284 winchester variants dominating Fclass winners circles. 300 WSM being a go to for 1000 yard bench rest if the wind is going to blow.

All that said, aint nothing wrong with a RUM or 28 Nosler. They are fire breathers for sure and there's no disputing that they have impressive ballistics.

The problem with a 300 win mag at 600 yards is the trajectory is dropping off precipitously. At a known 600 yards that's not as big of a problem but you better have that range down to the nuts.

Punching factory nosler 180 accubond ammo into the ol calculator Here's what I get:

300wm @ 2950 FPS
575 yard drop - 10.7 MOA
600 yard drop - 11.4 MOA
Error if you range at 575 and animal is actually 600 = 0.7 MOA

300RUM @ 3250 FPS
575 yard drop - 8.4 MOA
600 yard drop - 9.0 MOA
Error if you range at 575 and animal is actually 600 = 0.6 MOA

So we're talking about 0.1 MOA increase in POA error if you have a 25 yard ranging error. Less than half of a scope click. It's negligible.

 

[BuckRut]

OP - i'm pretty squarely on the side of modest cartridges, even for long range, compared to super overbore magnums. Lots of folks think they need to buy some hot rod cartridge if they are going to shoot a long ways. It seems like an effort to buy competency when they'd get a lot farther shooting something they can put a higher volume of rounds down range without torching a barrel, spending a fortune on ammo, and getting beat up with recoil. That way they'd actually understand why they miss or impact vs buying something with better numbers on paper.

One could take a look at all of the competitive long range shooting disciplines and what is dominating. It's modest, consistent, predictable cartridges. 6 BR variants dominating PRS, and some Benchrest/Fclass categories. 284 winchester variants dominating Fclass winners circles. 300 WSM being a go to for 1000 yard bench rest if the wind is going to blow.

All that said, aint nothing wrong with a RUM or 28 Nosler. They are fire breathers for sure and there's no disputing that they have impressive ballistics.



Punching factory nosler 180 accubond ammo into the ol calculator Here's what I get:

300wm @ 2950 FPS
575 yard drop - 10.7 MOA
600 yard drop - 11.4 MOA
Error if you range at 575 and animal is actually 600 = 0.7 MOA

300RUM @ 3250 FPS
575 yard drop - 8.4 MOA
600 yard drop - 9.0 MOA
Error if you range at 575 and animal is actually 600 = 0.6 MOA

So we're talking about 0.1 MOA increase in POA error if you have a 25 yard ranging error. Less than half of a scope click. It's Negligible.

You are correct. I should have run the numbers side by side. I was not aware the RUM also really starts losing elevation passed 400.

 

[X13]

You are correct. I should have run the numbers side by side. I was not aware the RUM also really starts losing elevation passed 400.

I don't think there's anything out there that isn't starting to nose dive past 400. Even a 30-378 WBY is going at 30-30 speed by the time it gets out to 400+

 

[El Jason]

Shirley you jest.

Why is Shirley getting drug into this? Does she think suppressor is the correct terminology too?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Why is Shirley getting drug into this? Does she think suppressor is the correct terminology too?

watch

 

[OntarioHunter]

Don't use the term flippantly.

Sounds like this might be a paradigm.

 

[Arcola]

For those that shoot a .28 Nosler, I have been warned that certain Rifle brands are struggling to produce accurate .28 Noslers or that they are very picky and depending on the make don’t always shoot factory ammo well. Is there any truth to this?

My buddy got a fierce .28 Nosler last fall and the thing has been a tack driver with both of the two loads he’s made up for it. Particularly, I’m looking at a christen arms .28 or RUM. If I decide on the RUM I’m also considering a weatherby Mark V.

Also thinking about getting a suppressor for this gun, anybody have any experience with one on either of these calibers?

I have a Nosler Mountain Carbon in 28 Nosler. It shoots lights out with the Accubonds and E-tips I've run through it. Working on some Hammer loads now because I can't leave well enough alone. Recoils a fair amount being as light as it is. I'm not super recoil sensitive, but a long range day becomes unpleasant with this one. However, screw on a suppressor, and recoil is seriously in the 7mm-08 neighborhood. My petite wife used it (suppressed) all last year due to us lacking ammo for her rifle.

Now that I've sold you on it, I'll mention that the ammo costs lately are insane! Literally $7+/round for premium ammo in many places. Big part of my decision to step up my reloading game.

 

[brockel]

You are correct. I should have run the numbers side by side. I was not aware the RUM also really starts losing elevation passed 400.

Drop is easy to compensate for at distance. Since you say 600 yards I assume you are dialing. Couple extra clicks and you are there. Your biggest enemy is wind.

 

[mtmuley]

This ain't the place for advice or experiences with big magnum cartridges. mtmuley