ND HB 1151

[BuzzH]

Yes.. Because the winter where 100 people came and harvest deer from our yard (kids included) it was mostly doe whitetails, with a bow, from a heated stand when the weather didn't get much above -25 for a month.. In my back yard.. Not included the others that came in before the big yard up process and hunted our land also.

As we've said.. Other years it's many others on other land we own shooting many different things. We just use that one winter as the example because we controlled a decent sized chunk of the population that yarded up in our yard when others didn't have a chance to hunt until that opportunity was presented.

Like I said, so noble.

 

[GST]

So noble to allow others to manage "your" deer problems...

What a joke.

Clearly not about the "kids"...if it were, you'd let them shoot any deer they wanted over your bait pile when the weather wasn't -25.

So noble to allow others to manage "your" deer problems...

What a joke.

Clearly not about the "kids"...if it were, you'd let them shoot any deer they wanted over your bait pile when the weather wasn't -25.

Okay we will just stop everyone from coming in sitting in our stands hunting deer on our land … better?

People tend to forget hunting is a recreational activity for most … it is not my responsibility to ensure your recreational action meets your demands and expectations unless you are paying me for those expectations

We don’t charge a dime for what we share that we work hard to create

You are certainly able to buy a section of land invest your hard work and tens of thousands of dollars to create great opportunities and open it up to everyone…. Let me know when you do and Ill send those kids expecting to shoot a Booner their first time out your way

 

[BuzzH]

Okay we will just stop everyone from coming in sitting in our stands hunting deer on our land … better?

People tend to forget hunting is a recreational activity for most … it is not my responsibility to ensure your recreational action meets your demands and expectations unless you are paying me for those expectations

We don’t charge a dime for what we share that we work hard to create

You are certainly able to buy a section of land invest your hard work and tens of thousands of dollars to create great opportunities and open it up to everyone…. Let me know when you do and Ill send those kids expecting to shoot a Booner their first time out your way

Yes, it would be better because you wouldn't try to use allowing kids hunting your bait piles as a crutch to allow baiting in North Dakota. You must really think people are stupid, and don't see right through exactly why you want baiting. To make it easier and more convenient for YOU to kill bucks. Has absolutely jack nothing to do with helping kids manage "your" deer problem. Has zip to do with the impacts it WILL and IS having on the deer there.

A big part of the problem IS the fact you bait...deer aren't stupid, they remember where they get a hand-out.

Baiting and artificial feeding is not a good idea, period, end of story from a disease standpoint, from a management standpoint, and the list is endless.

Yes, if I had property, I would absolutely allow a kid to shoot any deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. they wanted.

Believe it or not, not everyone is selfish...in case you didn't realize that. Which isn't surprising since you seem pretty good at taking with both hands.

 

[GST]

Like I said, so noble.

Hunters have the ability to influence access to private lands

Sometimes it is good….sometimes its not

We aren’t concerned with being “noble” by anyone else's standards… just getting kids involved in hunting

I shake my head when people take issue with that

Yes, it would be better because you wouldn't try to use allowing kids hunting your bait piles as a crutch to allow baiting in North Dakota. You must really think people are stupid, and don't see right through exactly why you want baiting. To make it easier and more convenient for YOU to kill bucks. Has absolutely jack nothing to do with helping kids manage "your" deer problem.

A big part of the problem IS the fact you bait...deer aren't stupid, they remember where they get a hand-out.

Baiting and artificial feeding is not a good idea, period, end of story from a disease standpoint, from a management standpoint, and the list is endless.

Yes, if I had property, I would absolutely allow a kid to shoot any deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. they wanted.

Believe it or not, not everyone is selfish...in case you didn't realize that.

When you have land and you have 600 deer congregated on 15 acres of it all winter seeing them crowded in front of a silage pole and crawling over chopped hay piles … come lecture me how a couple bushels of corn and 20 deer are the issue with disease transfer

um I have said on here I hunted over bait ( when we could)

My sons ( Wyatt) are grown men … they hunted over bait

I said we hunt big bucks( for our area)

Im not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes here

My uncle and I like helping kids get started hunting

Like I said it always amazes me when people bitch about that for any reason

Hunting in Wyoming is much different than hunting in north central ND …I guess I try not to be so arrogant to tell folks in other states how they have to hunt or what their hunting regs or laws should be

 

[BuzzH]

Hunters have the ability to influence access to private lands

Sometimes it is good….sometimes its not

We aren’t concerned with being “noble” by anyone else's standards… just getting kids involved in hunting

I shake my head when people take issue with that

When you have land and you have 600 deer congregated on 15 acres of it all winter seeing them crowded in front of a silage pole and crawling over chopped hay piles … come lecture me how a couple bushels of corn and 20 deer are the issue with disease transfer

um I have said on here I hunted over bait ( when we could)

My sons ( Wyatt) are grown men … they hunted over bait

I said we hunt big bucks( for our area)

Im not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes here

My uncle and I like helping kids get started hunting

Like I said it always amazes me when people bitch about that for any reason

I can find plenty of ways to make those deer not congregate on 15 acres all winter.

Still you fail to answer the question of how baiting absolutely is part of the problem you're trying to justify fixing by helping kids shoot deer over a bait pile.

What you like most is grown men shooting buck deer over bait...and any amount of evidence to the reasons why that shouldn't happen mean NOTHING to you.

You only care about one thing, killing a buck over bait.

Why not admit it? Stop pretending you care about deer, the disease, congregating, etc. issues with baiting, or the kids that do your management for you.

Its all talking points for your agenda...man up.

Oh, and if I had to introduce kids to hunting, by baiting doe whitetails, I think I'd find something better for them to do.

What a joke.

 

[GST]

I can find plenty of ways to make those deer not congregate on 15 acres all winter.

Still you fail to answer the question of how baiting absolutely is part of the problem you're trying to justify fixing by helping kids shoot deer over a bait pile.

What you like most is grown men shooting deer over bait...and any amount of evidence to the reasons why that shouldn't happen mean NOTHING to you.

You only care about one thing, killing a buck over bait.

Why not admit it? Stop pretending you care about deer, the disease, congregating, etc. issues with baiting, or the kids that do your management for you.

Its all talking points for you agenda...man up.

So tell us EXACTLY how in north central ND you will keep 600 deer from congregating (yarding up)

Ummm I am going to be 60 I have shot dozens of bucks and a few does in my life but I have shot 2 bucks in the last 10 years

It has been 10 years since I shot a buck with my bow all for a reason

I spend more time helping my sons and daughter and other kids getting their deer cause that means more to me than me getting one

I can find plenty of ways to make those deer not congregate on 15 acres all winter.

Still you fail to answer the question of how baiting absolutely is part of the problem you're trying to justify fixing by helping kids shoot deer over a bait pile.

What you like most is grown men shooting buck deer over bait...and any amount of evidence to the reasons why that shouldn't happen mean NOTHING to you.

You only care about one thing, killing a buck over bait.

Why not admit it? Stop pretending you care about deer, the disease, congregating, etc. issues with baiting, or the kids that do your management for you.

Its all talking points for your agenda...man up.

Oh, and if I had to introduce kids to hunting, by baiting doe whitetails, I think I'd find something better for them to do.

What a joke.

I would be very interested if you would tell us EXACTLY how in north central ND you will keep 600 deer from yarding up in our ranch home place ???

Our G&F has a youth season introducing kids to hunting and they can only shoot does

You certainly have that ability to choose to help youth get involved in hunting how you see fit or to not help a kid get involved in hunting and I wont advocate to take away a tool you might use to do that

I guess the smiles and hugs or high fives from a kid shooting their first deer …doe or buck means a bit more to me than gaining your approval

 

[wct12]

I can find plenty of ways to make those deer not congregate on 15 acres all winter.

Still you fail to answer the question of how baiting absolutely is part of the problem you're trying to justify fixing by helping kids shoot deer over a bait pile.

What you like most is grown men shooting buck deer over bait...and any amount of evidence to the reasons why that shouldn't happen mean NOTHING to you.

You only care about one thing, killing a buck over bait.

Why not admit it? Stop pretending you care about deer, the disease, congregating, etc. issues with baiting, or the kids that do your management for you.

Its all talking points for your agenda...man up.

We've killed lots of good deer not over a bait pile also.. Actually tons more not over bait then over bait so I don't think that's our pushing/deciding factor..

Those deer are coming back to the silage, hay and shelter that we have in our yard.. Not the 5 gals of corn. Hence the reason they end up in neighbors yards also that have never 1 time baited deer in their life..

Name one way to not get those deer to congregate, I would like to know really.. The nice little whistles and poppers don't work.. The sirens turn into a dinner bell when they come on.. Please enlighten me how to keep them out of my silage pile because we've tried almost everything we could.

 

[GST]

We've killed lots of good deer not over a bait pile also.. Actually tons more not over bait then over bait so I don't think that's our pushing/deciding factor..

Those deer are coming back to the silage, hay and shelter that we have in our yard.. Not the 5 gals of corn. Hence the reason they end up in neighbors yards also that have never 1 time baited deer in their life..

Name one way to not get those deer to congregate, I would like to know really.. The nice little whistles and poppers don't work.. The sirens turn into a dinner bell when they come on.. Please enlighten me how to keep them out of my silage pile because we've tried almost everything we could.

Wyatt Buzz didn’t say he could keep them out of our silage…. sitting in Wy he says he he can keep deer from “congregating” up here in ND

So I hope he shares his plan to keep deer from yarding up for us folks up here in ND … especially us ranchers

 

[NDGuy]

Alright everyone....

 

[BuzzH]

We've killed lots of good deer not over a bait pile also.. Actually tons more not over bait then over bait so I don't think that's our pushing/deciding factor..

Those deer are coming back to the silage, hay and shelter that we have in our yard.. Not the 5 gals of corn. Hence the reason they end up in neighbors yards also that have never 1 time baited deer in their life..

Name one way to not get those deer to congregate, I would like to know really.. The nice little whistles and poppers don't work.. The sirens turn into a dinner bell when they come on.. Please enlighten me how to keep them out of my silage pile because we've tried almost everything we could.

I would tell you, but it would be a complete waste of my time.

The same waste of time that it is explaining why baiting is going to impact deer adversely in the long run.

Your mind is already made up...and no amount of logic, science, or data will change it.

Keep whacking them deer over your bait pile, allow the legislature to control your wildlife, etc.

You're doing "great"...

 

[brocksw]

You want to advocate for a public legislative issue then complain when someone else comments ..

Oh I'm not complaining about comments or debate. But what you and wyatt are doing here isn't either. You're over 60 posts in less than 48 hours, all in the same thread I think. That's craziness. How do you get any work done? What do you do all day? I can't keep up with that....and that's just you. Wyatt has over 100 posts in less than 3 weeks. People with jobs, families, and responsibilities can't keep up with that. I've burnt up a week of vacation and am engaged in 4 different bills this session.

From the outside view, it looks more like you guys are purposely trying to muddy the waters and destroy dialogue, flooding it with your opinions and trying to drown out opposition...obfuscation by any definition. Something that no one on the opposition's side has done to you folks.

Once someone presents facts or explanation, you move on to another topic, then bring it up again later in the same thread. Over and Over and OVER and OVER again. It's actually kind of mind boggling to watch. Almost the entire forum is laughing at this thread, because of your and Wyatt's relentless and dominating conversational style and circular arguments. I've had numerous people message me telling me how hilarious it is. As a fellow North Dakotan, I'm embarrassed for you and embarrassed that you are representing our state on a public thread.

This org determines policy from the top down and members are expected to pay their dues and shut up and go along with what the board decrees

False. Our chapter leads policy for our state. Period. We have NEVER been told what to do or what to say on ANY issue. Not one. I'm a 5th generation North Dakotan, I can take you to where my Great Great Grandpa Wilhelm first settled in the Lincoln Valley.

“I've only heard rumors about this. But what I heard is that you guys were being complete assholes, hurling accusations at the game and fish and shouting at them. Perhaps I should call the Game and Fish folks and get their side of the story?”

That's why I made it abundantly clear that they were rumors. Hence the first sentence states, "I've only heard rumors..."

My best advice is if you can’t deal with the stupid crap don’t get engaged because sadly that is how things progress any more

I'm fine. But I do think it's important that the public knows that this is how the side you are connected to operates. Personal attacks, threats, bringing people on ND radio shows just to bash groups and individuals in opposition, name calling. It's pretty low and pathetic that your side has to resort to that, and since you are seen as one of the people leading that charge, it reflects on you. Like it or not. I've had a heated exchange or two, but I've never done what your side is doing, no one person on my board has either.

My North Dakota bonafides are just as good as anyone on your side. Yet I get emails and text's telling me to leave the state because I'm not welcome. Someone's handing out my number and I get random calls from people who do nothing but call me names and make threats. One guy called and wanted to talk but called me "retard" within the first 30 seconds of the conversation...then wondered why I wouldn't enter into a discussion and said Id only listen.

I've seen conversations about where I work and where I live. I get called names in public at the grocery store. Arman keeps going on radio shows to talk shit about me. He writes letter to my HQ trying to have me removed from the organization. You guys got Ted Nugent to call my chapter, "the enemy of hunting" with the North Dakota Farm Bureau President Daryl Lies on public radio.

And you know what....it is what it is. If that's the way the people on your side operate, so be it. But I will not back down 1 inch. Keep it coming, I will continue to do the right thing in spite of it.

It really has been a masterful misinformation campaign on the part of that FB page and many of the bill proponents, including you and Wyatt. I have to hand it to you guys. I believe it's worked so well because there are some shreds of truth that you guys have twisted into your arguments. You're right, winter herding is a disease risk. Your silage piles and rancher hay stacks are a disease risk. But assuming that because of those things we should abandoned all other efforts, is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Assuming that we can do nothing because of those risks is illogical and irresponsible. Doing nothing, like the bill proponents propose, is reckless and negligent. And there are efforts we can make as hunters and landowners to buy ourselves some time. That's the point of all this. To buy our state as much time as possible with low prevalence.

Now, you can disagree, which I'm sure you will in the next 50 posts you flood the thread with. But that changes nothing about where I stand on the issue and I will continue to fight against the odds until the bitter end. It's the right thing to do and I'm lucky enough to have a large support system from friends, family, BHA, and Hunttalk. I'm incredibly grateful for all the people who have stood beside me on this issue. I warned them all this would be an uphill battle from the beginning and your side would get nasty. You folks continue to prove me right.

Take care Gabe and Wyatt. I need a break from.... whatever this thread has become.

 

[Big Fin]

Wow 16 pages. Interesting to observe North Dakota wildlife politics from afar.

As is always the case with these long-winded threads of banter, no minds have been changed. Cliffs notes for those not from ND and who don't want to read all 16 pages......

A. Science-based wildlife is BS and some have the legislative votes in their pocket to prove it's BS. Just like the ballot box biologists in Colorado, Oregon, California, New Jersey, if the science doesn't fit the desired outcome, a legislative work around will change that.

B. Scientists who think unnatural concentrations of wildlife create disease vectors are ignorant dumbasses with no common sense and their daily goal is to fulfill an agenda. We have the votes to show they're a bunch of dumbasses.

C. When anti-hunters use political means to go around the normal processes of Commissions and wildlife departments, they are a bunch hypocrites trying to kill the North American Model and the integrity of science-based wildlife management. When well-connected hunters do the same, it is called "reeling in big gubmnt" on behalf of "We the people."

D. Current peer-reviewed science demonstrating the many disease risks resulting from unnatural wildlife concentrations are agenda-driven BS.

Carry on ........

 

[wct12]

I would tell you, but it would be a complete waste of my time.

The same waste of time that it is explaining why baiting is going to impact deer adversely in the long run.

Your mind is already made up...and no amount of logic, science, or data will change it.

Keep whacking them deer over your bait pile, allow the legislature to control your wildlife, etc.

You're doing "great"...

A complete waste of time?... I would gladly use any technique you had to disperse deer from my hay and silage pile... When you provide it that is.

 

[BuzzH]

A complete waste of time?... I would gladly use any technique you had to disperse deer from my hay and silage pile... When you provide it that is.

Can't provide anything to someone that already knows it all...

Good luck with that.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Carry on ........

You forgot

E) when all else fails, do it for the children.

 

[wct12]

Can't provide anything to someone that already knows it all...

Good luck with that.

Definitely dont know it all and willing to learn.. All options are still on the table here.. Just the things we have tried in the past haven't worked. We still have these guns with screecher loads (don't remember the exact name) half full because after doing it a few times the deer hardly picked there heads up. And those were supposed to be the answer, so I'm gladly willing to try whatever.

 

[SwaggyD]

You forgot

E) when all else fails, do it for the children.

#forthekids

 

[NDGuy]

#forthekids

And the NUGEEEE

 

[BlakeA]

If you post things that are based on “rumor” as you admit here… most times they are wrong as was this accusation…… that throws fuel on the fire Brock … accept your role in what you complain about

Except it is the truth because I was sitting 3 rows in front of you and saw and heard it all. Much like this thread, you overran the entire meeting and made it a complete waste of time. All I took away from that meeting was that the folks at G&F don't make nearly enough money that they should be making having to deal with people like you and your son @wct12 all year.

You both have made complete fools of yourself over and over but your son @wct12 really took the cake questioning if @BuzzH helps anyone. Good lord

Neither of you two are worth talking to. Complete waste of time, hence why so many have stopped responding on this thread. Neither of you offer anything of value here.

Soon you can get back to killing your tame yard bucks over a bait pile back behind your house. Congrats.

 

[warmer]

16 pages and no lock. Congrats gentlemen and ladies.