brocksw
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ND HB 1151
- Thread starter brocksw
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Carnage2011
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Wow!
rjthehunter
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Interesting.
rjthehunter
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My buddy has been sending me trail cam pics of the alfalfa bale he put out once he was done hunting out there this year. MONSTERS show up daily to eat. It wouldn't even be hunting at that point. It would be shooting...
NDGuy
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NDGuy
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How could our local small town youtubers shoot anything without bait!?
brocksw
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Bill has not been assigned a committee yet. Anticipating it going to Todd Porter's Energy and Natural resources. He has been involved in drafting this bill and has been garnering legislative support for the past month or so. As @Schism mentioned, "the hill" is already in front of us. I brought my hiking boots.
NDGuy
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Baiting aside I don't like the bill using language limiting what the G&F can do as they see fit.
brocksw
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As it is written, no. There will be amendments to the bill, one of which will include, "on private property."
8andcounting
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I hope they ban baiting period . Statewide . Problem is how it’s currently written …. Baiting is not illegal . Baiting for hunting purposes is illegal . Shouldn’t be unit by unit . Either ban it or open it up statewide
I would love to know who you're talking about. Just so I can check out their stuff.
I am just scouring the internet for people talking about this. I want to encourage the people commenting about all the "not real hunters" who "can't hunt without bait" to look at some of the main groups pleading their case with the game and fish. They are non-profits focused on helping people with disabilities hunt. They are groups who aim to help vets enjoy hunting. They are groups who care about getting youth into hunting.
We aren't the set in our ways dummies everyone loves to say we are. We have been actively talking to the game and fish for years trying to get them to show us the proof that what they are saying and doing is the truth. They can't, or won't. All we've asked for is transparency and for them to consider the unintended consequences of their regulations. We've made our position clear, show us evidence that baiting causes an increase in the spread of CWD that is greater than that of natural spread and we are on board. Instead of an answer we are just told we are no longer allowed to hunt deer over bait, but everyone else can bait and feed for whatever they'd like. Heck, I can have a giant corn pile to hunt fall turkeys if I'd like, but I cant hunt the deer that come to it.
"Honestly, I'm not sure if baiting has an effect or not, but if things get bad, we need to say we did something.". That is a quote from a conversation I had with one of the game and fish people after an advisory board meeting.
I am heavily involved with a group called Prairie Grit Adaptive Sports. Our mission is to provide sporting experiences for people with physical and mental disabilities. My role specifically is within our hunting and fishing branch. Every year we provide a multitude of different hunts from antelope in Wyoming, bear in Manitoba and whitetail deer and turkey throughout North Dakota.
We rely heavily on the ability to bait for deer. In fact, we lost a great adaptive hunting spot last year due to one of our units being shut down.
I've seen so many people respond: "if you have to bait, you aren't a real hunter.". Well, in our case we can't necessarily spot and stalk with someone who cannot use their legs. We can't climb a tree with someone who has a degenerative neurologic disease. Do you know what it takes to go to the bathroom if you are in a wheelchair? I'll give you a small amount of insight, everything we do takes a significant amount of work and preparation. We cannot go to the deer, all we can do is try to get the deer to us. "You're not a real hunter" is an arrogant thing to say when we are all one accident or one diagnosis away from completely losing something that we not only love, but something that is a core part of who we are.
NDGuy
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Wasn't directed at you, your situation is quite different than what the people above are poking fun at.
Private landowners, instahunters, the ones bitching about no baiting.
I am mostly concerned with the legislative overreach trying to limit what G&F can or cannot do. Banning bait or not, I will just change up my methods and adapt.
I don't like the government bureaucrats telling the G&F what to do, can see how well that worked out in other places.
I respect your position. To us, we are people begging our representatives to make the government hear us. The game and fish is still the government. We don't even want then to change anything necessarily, we just want them to prove us wrong. Government bureaucrats didn't create this, people did. Average people.
I hate that I sound like I am against the G&F. I actually think they have been doing a great job managing the resource, however, on this topic, they refuse to defend their regulations and I have trouble with that.
brocksw
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I think there's a couple things at play here that in my opinion, are going to continue to be hang ups given the current variables.
First, I keep hearing you talk about "contrarian science" or "the other side of the science". Could you elaborate on what exactly you're talking about?
I am also curious about how similar organizations to Prairie Girt operate in states that do no allow baiting. MT, SD, WY, CO, ID, MN among many others, all prohibit baiting. Yet, they still have organizations very similar to yours that get disadvantaged people out and hunt. What makes your operation the exception compared to the other states?
Sure Brock, and maybe contrarian science isn't the word I should say, more inconclusive science. Every study I have seen says that saliva may lead CWD transmission. Well sure. But then I look at the studies, and the method is injecting 50ml of infected deer saliva directly into the mouth of a fawn and noticing spread. I can agree that CWD may be spread through saliva, but where in deer baiting are deer drinking 50ml of it? Currently nothing shows that baiting spreads cwd greater than what occurs naturally.
I killed my deer this year when he was on his way from where all the deer were bedded to where they were all pigging out on acorns. If I set up on those acorns, would I be baiting? The distribution was very similar to what a broadcast feeder would do. Earlier in the year they are all eating the same soybeans and across the river they are eating the same apples and eating the neighbors bales for their horses. In the summer they are drinking water so close to each other and so consistently that the midges responsible for EHD can decimate whole populations. All fall they are fighting and making babies, both things that require them to be pretty close to each other. Anyone who spends time with whitetail deer know how social and how close they stay to each other.
I don't like the term "contrary science", so if I've said that in the past I would like to change it to "Science that shows different outcomes". There are biologists and DVM that have published papers contrary to what is accepted as gospel, however that isn't my focus, my focus is that regulations are being made based on inconclusive theories. The burden of proof should fall on those making regulations, not those who are challenging.
As for similar organizations, I'm not sure. I can say we have some challenges that are relatively unique to our area. One is that we mainly use archery gear because that is one of the only consistent ways of hunting that we have. If you watch videos of other organizations its very frequently guns. You may notice as well that bear hunts are common for adaptive hunts because the bait allows for a more consistent experience and the opportunity for a more calculated and ethical shot. Landscape wise, North Dakota has some other issues. Most land would be difficult to pattern deer in, which would be fine and doable for someone with good mobility and flexibility of hunting styles, but on the open prairie, we need to draw deer in. If you don't own riverbottom or big coulee land that holds deer constantly, your only option is to draw them to you. Some organizations use 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars of ag equipment to make regenerative baiting sites, or food plots. We don't have that. Is it an option, sure, but it makes deer hunting too rich for not only our organization, but also others trying to do it themselves. It takes hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars just to provide the opportunity to get out. Bait is a crucial tool for us in our landscape and situation.
I've said it before that if there were data showing a definite increase, I would 100% be for banning baiting, but since baiting for the purpose of hunting deer is the only thing being targeted while all other baiting/feeding being just fine I can't see then sense. If we were so certain that baiting was going to wipe out the deer herd, feeding of all kinds would be outlawed.
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