MT - Changes in Hunting Regs/Units/Seasons coming this month

[Big Shooter]

Can you and Eric get Mac to make a statement regarding this? Him and Randy talked about working together on that podcast episode....now would be an opportune time.

I tried calling him yesterday and no answer. I will visit with him in length about it today or tomorrow though. The commissioner I spoke with yesterday basically told me that the open houses will be nothing short of a meet and greet and the only way to get anywhere is through proposals that are given to the commission. There is a handful of us that are currently kicking ideas around that we will submit to Mac and then onto the commission. Antlerradar….I mean no disrespect…..but there is no celebrating with a lot of us right now due to the fact that we know changes need to be made. I just had a lengthy conversation with a biologist concerning mule deer management and I threw one of our ideas at him and he actually didn’t hate it and said that it had never came up until our conversation. He was definitely going to pass it on to some of his colleagues as he thought it had some merit.

 

[BuzzH]

I'd be willing to throw in some cash to order order a whole bunch of them for fwp staff.

They would just eat the books...

 

[Buffs35]

Rumor is, the state will be conglomerated into one hunting district. Season days will run from January 1 to December 31, any elk, multiple tags available.

 

[Hammerhead]

Don’t forget the each FWP region has a citizen advisory committee. Call the regional office, get the contact info for them and tell them what you think of these ideas.

 

[Gerald Martin]

You’re trying to lump them all together. It doesn’t work, and that’s why issues have never been resolved.

Some ranchers truly don’t want a single elk on their place. At all. Others want more so they can sell more hunts. Others don’t care how many ek are on their place, no one is shooting them.

Add all of this together and you get a shit sandwich. Many districts simply don’t have the access to achieve the goals of eliminating the conflict elk pose with the guy who doesn’t want any, because they spend the majority of their time on the other places.

It’s a sociological issue as much as a biological one. It’s not getting solved by making huge districts with 6 month seasons. The public land elk get shot to shit and the inaccessible elk remain, inaccessible.

Mic drop.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Then how do you know this?

From personal experience and observation.

Unit 217 - 2019. Antlerless only all season long for general tag holders. 250 either sex permits.

I watched 600-800 head of elk camped out on the D’Angelo ranch. The surrounding public and accessible private didn’t have an elk or an elk track that was fresher than a month old from what I could tell.

The Dunkleberg BMA was on the border with D’Angelo. I think he had @ 15,000 acres but no elk and very little cover. The sign in sheets were full and it was hunted every day.

I bet there’s a bunch of other guys in different areas with similar experiences.

The elk have so much pressure on accessible lands for so long they learn to avoid it until the pressure ends. Adding more pressure only ensures they stay in sanctuary areas and increase. Landowners on the periphery are going to see predation increase during the times that elk aren’t being harassed.

If FWP wants elk to select public lands for preference there needs to be LESS pressure not more.

I am sympathetic to the financial burdens private landowners incur from elk, but the solutions implemented are causing them more problems not alleviating their costs. And it’s causing a serious degradation of the quality of elk hunting on public land.

 

[timmy]

Hard for some to wrap their mind around but harvest would increase with less opportunity. Of course opportunity would decrease so that is dead in the water.

 

[Hem]

From personal experience and observation.

Unit 217 - 2019. Antlerless only all season long for general tag holders. 250 either sex permits.

I watched 600-800 head of elk camped out on the D’Angelo ranch. The surrounding public and accessible private didn’t have an elk or an elk track that was fresher than a month old from what I could tell.

The Dunkleberg BMA was on the border with D’Angelo. I think he had @ 15,000 acres but no elk and very little cover. The sign in sheets were full and it was hunted every day.

I bet there’s a bunch of other guys in different areas with similar experiences.

The elk have so much pressure on accessible lands for so long they learn to avoid it until the pressure ends. Adding more pressure only ensures they stay in sanctuary areas and increase. Landowners on the periphery are going to see predation increase during the times that elk aren’t being harassed.

If FWP wants elk to select public lands for preference there needs to be LESS pressure not more.

I am sympathetic to the financial burdens private landowners incur from elk, but the solutions implemented are causing them more problems not alleviating their costs. And it’s causing a serious degradation of the quality of elk hunting on public land.

Serious mind torture glassing that ranch.
5 miles of protected river bottom too...whitetail haven.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Serious mind torture glassing that ranch.
5 miles of protected river bottom too...whitetail haven.

Let’s give out another 1000 tags to control that elk herd so Dunkleberg doesn’t have elk eating his grass in May…

 

[Hem]

Let’s give out another 1000 tags to control that elk herd so Dunkleberg doesn’t have elk eating his grass in May…

I'm sure Amie(sp?)would love to have an open door to bring in 10 close friends to whack some of HIS bulls.

 

[Sytes]

Don’t forget the each FWP region has a citizen advisory committee. Call the regional office, get the contact info for them and tell them what you think of these ideas.

Good to know! Thanks for adding this tidbit.

 

[Hammerhead]

Good to know! Thanks for adding this tidbit.

Most of the advisory council folks have been very responsive when I have contacted them. Complete opposite of commissioners or legislators. I have been told that the councils will play a larger role in season setting now and in the future. Can’t hurt to try it either….just flood anyone willing to listen. Can’t help but make some impact when they talk to Helena.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

HIS bulls

Exactly how he treats them too. I know some of his family members. Even if his own family gets the tag for the area, he won't let them hunt if he sees other hunters on public land. Needless to say, they never get to hunt his property. Can't have those elk getting pushed onto public land. That unit was a total nightmare for me, a bright eyed bushy tailed first time permit holder.

I remember talking to the biologist for that area. She had a map of the unit and it plotted elk all over the public side.... although I knew those elk weren't there during hunting season. She just kept saying that she didn't understand why I almost never saw elk on the public side. Guess I didn't know anything, not like I had been out there every weekend from May to end of November and set out 5 trail cameras all over that unit.

Like Gerald said though, there's definitely more places like this, and it's a shame.

I just want to see cow elk on public land again like I used to. Now it seems like a rare occurrence where I've grown up hunting.

The people I've talked to outside here are pretty frustrated, and I hope they are frustrated enough to act and engage. I don't know the answers but I really appreciate everyone's input and perspective here.

I have heard some contradicting information in some circles and hopefully it will be made clear at these meetings.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I can’t wait to hunt shoulder season elk on the national forest this year. It’s gonna be awesome to take my snowmobile in on the gated roads after they open Dec. 1 and just drive up to a herd. I don’t know why we are even bothering to have a muzzleloader season but it’s going to be cool to have another edge during a primitive weapon hunt in the areas that don’t have shoulder seasons.
I can look for cat tracks before daylight (those suckers kill everything that moves) and then whack a slammer mule deer by 10 and be back at the truck by lunch.

I don’t know how many deer and elk I have ridden past within 50 yards on snowmobile.

You guys backpacking in are chumps.

 

[antlerradar]

I tried calling him yesterday and no answer. I will visit with him in length about it today or tomorrow though. The commissioner I spoke with yesterday basically told me that the open houses will be nothing short of a meet and greet and the only way to get anywhere is through proposals that are given to the commission. There is a handful of us that are currently kicking ideas around that we will submit to Mac and then onto the commission. Antlerradar….I mean no disrespect…..but there is no celebrating with a lot of us right now due to the fact that we know changes need to be made. I just had a lengthy conversation with a biologist concerning mule deer management and I threw one of our ideas at him and he actually didn’t hate it and said that it had never came up until our conversation. He was definitely going to pass it on to some of his colleagues as he thought it had some merit.

You may have miss read what I posted or I have poor wording. I think that this may help outfitters in the short run but will help hunt clubs even more and in the long run that will make it tough for outfitters to compete.

 

[golfer]

I tried calling him yesterday and no answer. I will visit with him in length about it today or tomorrow though. The commissioner I spoke with yesterday basically told me that the open houses will be nothing short of a meet and greet and the only way to get anywhere is through proposals that are given to the commission. There is a handful of us that are currently kicking ideas around that we will submit to Mac and then onto the commission. Antlerradar….I mean no disrespect…..but there is no celebrating with a lot of us right now due to the fact that we know changes need to be made. I just had a lengthy conversation with a biologist concerning mule deer management and I threw one of our ideas at him and he actually didn’t hate it and said that it had never came up until our conversation. He was definitely going to pass it on to some of his colleagues as he thought it had some merit.

What was the idea that had never been came up?

 

[El Jason]

What was the idea that had never been came up?

A non rut season?

 

[MTLabrador]

A non rut season?

You would be burned as a witch for recommending that idea.

 

[Big Shooter]

A non rut season?

Actually…..wait for it…….that was the FIRST idea that I ran by him. He was very good about it, but also told me that would be near impossible due to the push back by resident hunters. He did however recognize the fact that hunters are starting to come around a little on the idea of not hunting until Thanksgiving. I actually (and I will apologize in advance for this), threw my fellow Hunttalk friends under the bus and told him that many of you would entertain that idea. Appeared to be a mute point. I can honestly say that he didn’t disagree with the idea, but that it would be a VERY tough, if not impossible, sell. Another idea that we have kicked around, basically got put into the same file, but the other idea made him scratch his head and think for a while. I’m guessing (hoping) that him and I will be talking again soon.

 

[El Jason]

He was very good about it, but also told me that would be near impossible due to the push back by resident hunters.

They were able to pull it off when expanding shoulder seasons. What is so impossible to do this in the face of push back?

Edit: sorry, this is obviously a rhetorical question.