Looking at buying a new rifle... Custom? Semi-Custom?

[npaden]

Okay, I'm looking into buying a new rifle.

Background:

I've had my Browning A-Bolt for 8 years now and it has performed well for me in that time. I've taken 6 bull elk, 4 mule deer bucks, 4 whitetail bucks, a couple antelope bucks, a mountain goat and several pigs and coyotes with it. Before this weekend I had only pulled the trigger once with it on a big game animal and missed, and that was an elk that I thought was 400 yards away but after shooting and missing I actually used my range finder and found out that the elk had actually been 550 yards away.

Last week I shot at and missed a good whitetail buck that was 250 yards away with a 20+ mph wind looking into a setting sun. The buck had been moving and stopped and I probably rushed the shot a little. Not an "easy" shot, but one that I fully expect to make all day every day. I felt good at the shot, but after looking for a down or fatally wounded deer ahead of where I had shot, instead I saw him standing there looking at me. Then before I could shoot again he trotted off. I did a grid search at the shot location and the entire section of my property and didn't see a drop of blood or any indication that I had hit him.

I took the rifle home and shot off a 100 yard bench and the first shot was 3" high and 3" right. I thought that might explain the miss, adjusted 12 clicks down and 12 clicks left and shot 2 more shots. They were 1" low and 3" left. That left me scratching my head, so I clicked 12 clicks back to the right and 4 clicks up. Shot 2 shots and both were good left to right but one was 4" high and one was 1" high. Shot more more shot without adjusting the scope and it was right next to the 4" high one. Clicked it down 8 clicks and fired off one last shot thinking that would be 2" high at 100 yards and we would call it good. Nope, it hit 1" low and 3" left.

The barrel was a bit warm for that last shot, but it sure left me scratching my head. I'll get back out there and shoot again sometime this week and hopefully it will be good enough to let me take it back to see if I can find that whitetail again this weekend, but this has helped me to decide to really look into a new rifle. At it's best I haven't been able to get the A-Bolt to group much better than 1 1/2 MOA. My Rock River Arms AR15 will shoot 1/2 MOA so I don't think it is all me although I'm sure that is part of it.

So, if I go to buy a new gun, what should I get?

I am thinking a .300 WSM for an all around rifle good for pretty much everything in North America including bear. My A-Bolt is 7mm Rem Mag and I don't notice the recoil with a good recoil pad on it. I don't want a muzzle brake as I don't wear ear plugs when hunting. I want it to be an all weather rifle. I would love to be able to shoot 600 yards with it, but not sure if I can do my part on that or not.

I looked at the Montana Rifle Company Extreme X2 rifles and they look pretty good and seem to get pretty good reviews. They seem to be pretty good bang for the buck. They do custom rifles as well but the price sure seems to jump up there pretty quickly. The high country series looks pretty close to what I'm looking for but they are $$.

I'm a tightwad and really don't want to spend more on a gun than I need to, but at the same time I would be willing to pay for a gun that will shoot. I do my share of backpack hunting and would like to do more so a lightweight gun is also a requirement. It doesn't have to be over the top and weigh under 6lbs but much over 7lbs is probably a deal breaker.

Last tidbit is that I have a long torso and prefer a long length of pull on a rifle. That's one of the reasons I went with the A-bolt.

I haven't ruled out Browning and have looked at the X-bolt in .300 WSM, but really am looking for something under 1 MOA if possible. That little RRA AR15 is amazing how will it shoots and I never have to adjust the scope on it.

Part of the problem on my A-bolt is the free floated barrel I think and sometimes I hold the stock and the barrel in my hand and squeeze them together. Of course I don't do it on purpose, but it sure messed up the groups when I do that. Have to think back on each shot to think whether I held the thing correctly or not.

Okay, a lot of stuff thrown out there, and if it sounds like I don't know what I'm talking about then I probably don't.

I'm pretty sure I can get my A-bolt shooting 1 1/2 MOA in time to take it hunting this weekend, but this whole process has about convinced me to buy a new gun.

I would appreciate any ideas or input on this.

Thanks, Nathan

 

[noharleyyet]

I have a custom 300 short but if I could get a mulligan I'd go with Sako Finnlite in the same chambering at half the cost. You could snag a mickey stock to solve the LOP and still be in good shape $$$wise.

They carry well also.

 

[npaden]

Some additional random thoughts....

Bedding, etc. Free floating is supposed to be more accurate right? I guess a stronger stock wouldn't allow me to squeeze it and have the stock touch the barrel. What about glass bedding and all that stuff you hear?

Triggers. I did my own trigger job on my A-bolt by simply replacing a spring to drop it down to a 3lb pull. My Rock River Arms has a match grade 2 stage trigger. There isn't such a thing in a hunting rifle is there? That trigger rocks.

Thanks, Nathan

 

[T Bone]

lots of good choices out there.

Winchester Extreme Weather series, Rem 700, Tikka, and Sako would all be in the running for me.

Go pick them up, fondle them, and buy the one that speaks to you.

 

[kansasdad]

Nathan, I hope you find the rifle of your liking........just a thought on the variableness of your point of impact........did you triple-check that your scope rings screws were tight?




(Sadly the voice of experience speaking here.)

 

[BuzzH]

IMO/E, I don't think the make of the rifle is that important.

That said, a Rem. 700 action is easy to build on.

What I'm looking for in a rifle platform is something solid, repeatable, easy to find after-market stocks, triggers, etc. for.

What I've done to my main hunting rifles is to bed them, float the barrel (and MEAN it, if you float one), replace the factory trigger, had the actions trued, barrels are all custom with target crowns, speed loc firing pin assemblies, Bell and Carlson stocks, talley rings/bases, leupold scopes with M1 turrets.

I know that my rifles are far from perfect or the best, but they are hell for stout and a solid platform. I haven't changed zero on any of them for 2-4 years.

I haven't shot a target inside 250 yards for at least that long. My range sessions are shooting 4-8 inch steel plates out to 500, then 12-30 inch steel from 500 to 750.

I don't often miss any steel between 250-500...I'd say 90% from 500-750 and my misses at that range are just about always when there's pretty good wind to contend with.

I feel very comfortable and have no doubt in my rifles out to 650 or so...my ability, or lack there-of, is the question mark...combined with conditions like wind, mirage, etc.

I cant think of a worse thing than having a rifle that was changing POI, wasn't performing in a repeatable fashion, or that I didn't have confidence in...what an absolute nightmare that would be.

 

[nrpate05]

I'm a Weatherby guy and the new Vanguard Wilderness has peaked my interest. Its 6.75 lbs, which I feel is just about right. The action is smooth and solid and they are guaranteed to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. I think they sell for about a grand. Not sure of the calibers off the top of my head. I also have a long torso and long arms and the Vanguard seems to fit me well. Enjoy the search!

 

[JCWINZ]

Nathan, I hope you find the rifle of your liking........just a thought on the variableness of your point of impact........did you triple-check that your scope rings screws were tight?

(Sadly the voice of experience speaking here.)

Excellent place to start, if it were me I would verify base, rings, and actions crews were torqued to manufacturer specs first, then give the bore a good cleaning. There is also a potential for scope malfunction, maybe try mounting up a different scope to verify. These are all cheap and fairly quick to do "fixes". After that the can of worms starts to open and a new rifle begins to look more appealing.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Some additional random thoughts....

Bedding, etc. Free floating is supposed to be more accurate right? I guess a stronger stock wouldn't allow me to squeeze it and have the stock touch the barrel. What about glass bedding and all that stuff you hear?

Triggers. I did my own trigger job on my A-bolt by simply replacing a spring to drop it down to a 3lb pull. My Rock River Arms has a match grade 2 stage trigger. There isn't such a thing in a hunting rifle is there? That trigger rocks.

Thanks, Nathan

I posted a thread on bedding last year. If you're going to do it, you can install aluminum pillars and do a full action bedding job for not too much money.

 

[Muskeez]

From my limited experience I would start with scope ring/bases then some good quality copper remover and clean the heck out of that barrel until patches come out clean after soaking riflings with wet copper remover patches and brushing and dry patches and repeat multiple times. It helped my groups.

 

[----]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=530838268

http://m.murdochs.com/shop/leupold-vx3-35-14x40mm-cds-riflescope/ minus $100 leupold rebate.

It'd kill a bear.

 

[fez]

I would for check your rings before buying. That is unless your wanting a new gun. I too have an abolt in a 7mm. It's a flat out shooter. Will shoot 1/2moa all day after I developed a load for it.

I just bought the wife a 6.5 creedmoor in the xbolt. It looks like it will turn out to be a tack driver as well after I finish tweaking the load a bit.

I really like the tikka as well. Best thing to do is shoulder a bunch and see what fits.

If your interested I will give you the load data I have for the 7mm. See if that helps.

 

[zachthebowhunter]

I would start where others have stated and maybe also try different ammo/ loads. 8 years really isn't very old and it should still be shooting just fine in my opinion

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I'm a cheapskate, so I'd do some research before buying.

A few thoughts:

Copper fouling isn't going to make a drastic change in POI. Accuracy may go to chit, but likely in the 3 MOA range tops.

Check your scope - mount a different scope to verify it really is the gun

Check your scope mounts and rings.

If it is the gun, check action screws for tightness and check for a cracked stock around the recoil lug/action screws.

Learn to shoot without pressing on the barrel. If you are shifting POI by your grip, a new gun won't solve your problem. There's no reason to squeeze the barrel/foreend together.

I doubt your barrel is shot out, but even if it was you wouldn't see big changes in POI.

Edit:

I re-read your OP.

I would:

1) Check all scope mounts, action screws, stock. Clean barrel.
2) Shoot a few fouling shots then shoot a group.
3) Adjust scope and shoot a group. If problem still exists, then:
4) Change scope and repeat. If problem still exists:
5) Get a new gun

My guess is that it's your scope and/or mounts. If you can get the problem remedied, I'd pillar bed the stock and have the barrel re-crowned then shoot the hell out of it.

 

[WapitiBob]

Some guns are junk, just the facts of life. I was In your shoes a few years ago and bought a rem700. Best case it was a shooter, worst case a dog and I had to spend some more money.
It was a dog and I spent more money.
I could have bought a gun somebody else did all the work on, just showing up in a box but chose to do what I could myself. I had a local true the action, chamber, crown, and assemble a new barrel. I did the rest myself. I practiced bedding the action in the factory stock a cpl times then bought a stock and bedded the action. I've since re bedded it twice. Easy to do.
I spent good money on a 20moa rail and rings then bedded that rail and lapped the rings. I spent decent money on glass, had some problems and spent a bunch of money on a glass upgrade. It's been a frustrating time on occasion but when you go the range and it's like the rifle is laser guided it sure feels nice to know I did some of that work myself.
I learned that I don't have enough years left to spend a cpl of them trying to get a bad rifle to shoot.

 

[Dan O]

Any pressure on the barrel will drastically change your POI. Also if you use a sling that can change the POI. If you add pressure to the stock when shooting off a rest that can move the POI. Cleaning the barrel with a good solvent getting all the powder residue and carbon build up along with the copper out will make a difference in your groups.
Check the stock screws and talk to the factory to get the specs for torqueing the screws. Last but not least look over the scope and maybe swap it out with a proven one.
Is your load the same or have you changed to a new lot of powder? It can be an issue but normally not that much.
Just some ideas.
Good Luck,
Dan

 

[npaden]

Just to clarify, I do plan on checking things and getting my current gun to shoot at least a 1 1/2 MOA group before heading out this weekend. I've been shooting it with the same factory load for about 5 years now. Same Nikon Monarch 4-12x 42mm scope. I will clean the barrel as it is probably due a cleaning and I use the blue foamy stuff to get the copper out. I used loctite when mounting the scope but I will double check all the screws. It doesn't seem loose, my guess is I was just not concentrating on how I was holding it. I need to be very careful how I hold the fore stock, I used a lead sled before and tightened it down with the strap and it shot about 5 MOA so for sure pressure on the barrel especially if it is enough to contact the stock will make a dramatic difference.

With all that said, 1 1/2 MOA is about as good as I think I can get this rifle to shoot and I would like to do better than that. I just need to figure out which one I am going to get.

Randy11 - that rifle looks great but for some reason I don't like the win mag. I'll start looking for one of those in .300 WSM.

I guess I should jump on the leupold bandwagon and get one of those scopes too. Seems a little low on the price though. Aren't you supposed to spend as much on the scope as you do on the gun?

 

[WapitiBob]

If you use a lead sled, it should be empty. And nothing should be on top of the rifle, it should just sit there. Be mindful of sling studs on the forearm hitting during recoil. Lead sleds will shake a scope easily when weighed down.

 

[belly-deep]

I would assemble your own or go the full custom route. You sound like a guy who hunts a lot, and if you're traveling from Texas to do all those hunts, you obviously have the money. Do yourself a favor and build the rifle to your own whims.

 

[----]

Aren't you supposed to spend as much on the scope as you do on the gun?

http://www.cdnnsports.com/300rcm-hkm77prcm-20-sts-syn.html#.Vm97Z8tlDqA

There, now the scopes as much as the gun. That's a hell of a setup for $900. Use the extra cash to splurge on a hunt.