Elk vs. Wolves

[JT88]

Shooting them out of existence is exactly why they are not in Colorado. They were literally shot out of existence.

Shot, trapped, poisoned (basically nothing was illegal or off the table), and all with a bounty system in place to incentivize everyone to actively kill them.

They've done studies in Canada which show that if you put enough hunting pressure on wolves, they will basically go nocturnal to the point that you won't see them during daylight. This alone disproves your point about hunting them out of existence. It also shows how a longer season can actually be less effective than easing off and letting them settle down again

 

[Colorado hunter Tim]

Shot, trapped, poisoned (basically nothing was illegal or off the table), and all with a bounty system in place to incentivize everyone to actively kill them.

They've done studies in Canada which show that if you put enough hunting pressure on wolves, they will basically go nocturnal to the point that you won't see them during daylight. This alone disproves your point about hunting them out of existence. It also shows how a longer season can actually be less effective than easing off and letting them settle down again

We night hunt in Colorado

 

[mtmuley]

We night hunt in Colorado

There were a lot of guys in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming that puffed out their chest and proclaimed to shoot them all. Worked out really good. mtmuley

 

[marksjeep]

We night hunt in Colorado

For now. But not in lynx recovery areas...

 

[tjones]

Time to take matters into ones own hands. We don't need or want them in Colorado.

Heard the exact same thing in MT, WY, ID, WA, OR. Didn't work. Most never even see one.

The best one of the most vocal wolf haters could do in decades of griping was fake hit one with a mini van.

 

[GrantK]

not much interest in answering the original question? FWIW I have hunted quite a bit in areas with a really high wolf population, to the point that there have been some hunts where wolves were seen or heard every day... the elk that are accustomed to that amount of wolf activity seem to be pretty unbothered by it, bulls seem to be a bit more sensitive, they would shut up and move a mile or more if a wolf was howling close to them, but the cows, especially in larger herds, barely seem to care, they would move enough to get out of the way, but almost never more than a drainage over... this is in some of the original areas wolves were reintroduced so the elk have had a while to adapt, the locals I've talked to say that the elk were way more skittish about the wolves early on and have learned to live with them over time, although they say that there was way more bugling before wolves it's hard to say if that is the wolves or just hunter pressure? I know in general I hear a lot fewer bugles now than in 1998, wolves or no...

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Sounds like CPW just likes to chase wolves out of Colorado. Or they are so excited at the chance to manage wolves now they are even trapping them in WY! Haha.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/News/Colorado-wolf-collaring-effort-crosses-state-lines

 

[lpshunter29]

You should call CPW and report this.

I don't think it's worth the trouble. "They're coyotes" I've never experienced this myself but never heard someone talk about a report (of griz or wolves) where they didn't become a laughing stalk.

 

[Bowhunter999]

not much interest in answering the original question? FWIW I have hunted quite a bit in areas with a really high wolf population, to the point that there have been some hunts where wolves were seen or heard every day... the elk that are accustomed to that amount of wolf activity seem to be pretty unbothered by it, bulls seem to be a bit more sensitive, they would shut up and move a mile or more if a wolf was howling close to them, but the cows, especially in larger herds, barely seem to care, they would move enough to get out of the way, but almost never more than a drainage over... this is in some of the original areas wolves were reintroduced so the elk have had a while to adapt, the locals I've talked to say that the elk were way more skittish about the wolves early on and have learned to live with them over time, although they say that there was way more bugling before wolves it's hard to say if that is the wolves or just hunter pressure? I know in general I hear a lot fewer bugles now than in 1998, wolves or no...

“elk were way more skittish about the wolves early on and have learned to live with them over time” !

You are evidently referring to the elk which were not the ones eaten in the first place.......!?!?

Which ever way one looks at the issue, what is the benefit of a wolf population, to either the elk, elk hunting,........or to make it easy, for any purpose ? I would be interested to hear favorable reasons for such.

 

[GrantK]

“elk were way more skittish about the wolves early on and have learned to live with them over time” !

You are evidently referring to the elk which were not the ones eaten in the first place.......!?!?

Which ever way one looks at the issue, what is the benefit of a wolf population, to either the elk, elk hunting,........or to make it easy, for any purpose ? I would be interested to hear favorable reasons for such.

I'm attempting to answer the OP's question with my personal experience, which is what he was asking for, IME elk in areas where wolves have been for a while aren't all that nervous about them... are some elk getting eaten? yeah, I've found usually one or 2 fresh kills every year, But, there are plenty of elk that haven't been eaten, I've never struggled to find elk in those areas, honestly, if you are hearing the wolves they are there because there are elk, I'd be more concerned in those areas if I wasn't seeing or hearing evidence of wolves because likely the elk aren't there either.. my experience obviously doesn't cover all areas with wolves, I would expect that in new areas that they are introduced the hunting will suffer for a decade or more.

I don't think they are helping the elk or the hunting at all, and I'm against introducing them anywhere they aren't already, but they are on the landscape, and in my opinion, the effect they have on the quality of the hunt is pretty minor compared to the hordes of humans invading the woods these days...

 

[Deleted member 20812]

You are evidently referring to the elk which were not the ones eaten in the first place.......!?!?

Elk that have been eaten are quite undisturbed by the presence of wolves. They will lay motionless on the ground, typically in the form of a tapered turd but sometimes more in the form of a splatter.

 

[appaloosa]

Which ever way one looks at the issue, what is the benefit of a wolf population, to either the elk, elk hunting,........or to make it easy, for any purpose ? I would be interested to hear favorable reasons for such.

There are many ecological benefits to having intact predator/prey dynamics. Predation is an extremely important variable in wildlife ecology. As much as we (humans) like to claim that we have replaced large predators, we simply haven't come close. Predation helps regulate a lot of variables in the natural world and impacts game populations, positively and negatively, in ways that humans are incapable of. Are there consequences of having large predators on the landscape? Yes, absolutely, but if there are suitable habitat and locations capable of supporting wolves, then I am all for it.

I live and hunt in the epicenter of wolf and grizzly bear populations in Wyoming. I, personally, find a lot of value in knowing that there are still places in the world, some in my backyard, that are still relatively intact (biologically). Have wolves affected elk populations in my area? Yes, they behave differently. Has it affected their numbers? No, not particularly, I have no problem finding and killing elk. In fact, we can kill 3 elk a year here. I literally laugh in the face of people who tell me that wolves will, or have, killed all the elk.

I also realize, that this is largely my personal opinion, and that there are many others who do and don't share the same opinion of wolves. But, I do think there is some opportunity for some middle ground and that the extreme opinions on either side of the wolf debate shouldn't dictate the conversation.

 

[SAJ-99]

Interesting reading.

https://bioone.org/journals/Journal...ters-on-Elk-Behavioral/10.2193/2008-210.short

 

[Paul from Colorado]

Thanks, GrantK, Bowhunter999 & mtmuley for your comments. I know the elk move to private as soon as the hunting pressure gets too much and I’m sure the wolves will push them as well. This should be a fun adjustment.

The warden we spoke with explained that once the D.O.W, now Parks & Wildlife acknowledges that wolves are here they must present a management plan to Federal Fish & Wildlife. So again, it turns into a money game. More management tasks with a smaller pool of resources and less money. Which will require an increase in tag fees to manage the wolves. So, all of us hunters get to pay the price be it reduced herd numbers and hunting opportunity and increase in license fees or the increase in wolf pack numbers. It’s a vicious circle.

I think it is very unrealistic to consider that the wolf population will remain static, there are large food groups here and large portions of space for them to take over. I feel personally like I’m at the bottom of a large wave, I can see the rise in front of me, but I can’t see the crest. The crest will come as my kids take the field on their own.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Just me, but I'll take wolves any day over Ranching for Wildlife and its equivalents.

 

[Irrelevant]

The best elk hunting I experienced, borderline the best that could exist, especially on public land, occurred in an area of ID that is supposedly overrun with wolves over the span of 6 years. The recent increase in 2-legged predators seem to have done a better job of changing the elk behavior.

 

[Jason73]

Just me, but I'll take wolves any day over Ranching for Wildlife and its equivalents.

Doesn't ranching for wildlife offer private land access some wouldn't ordinarily have? Curious of how you connect the two? Honest question. Maybe I am missing your point.

 

[Hydrophilic]

There are many ecological benefits to having intact predator/prey dynamics. Predation is an extremely important variable in wildlife ecology. As much as we (humans) like to claim that we have replaced large predators, we simply haven't come close. Predation helps regulate a lot of variables in the natural world and impacts game populations, positively and negatively, in ways that humans are incapable of. Are there consequences of having large predators on the landscape? Yes, absolutely, but if there are suitable habitat and locations capable of supporting wolves, then I am all for it.

I live and hunt in the epicenter of wolf and grizzly bear populations in Wyoming. I, personally, find a lot of value in knowing that there are still places in the world, some in my backyard, that are still relatively intact (biologically). Have wolves affected elk populations in my area? Yes, they behave differently. Has it affected their numbers? No, not particularly, I have no problem finding and killing elk. In fact, we can kill 3 elk a year here. I literally laugh in the face of people who tell me that wolves will, or have, killed all the elk.

I also realize, that this is largely my personal opinion, and that there are many others who do and don't share the same opinion of wolves. But, I do think there is some opportunity for some middle ground and that the extreme opinions on either side of the wolf debate shouldn't dictate the conversation.

Nice to see posts like this - I think you are spot on.

I hunt in Oregon and have not experienced different success when it comes to elk hunting pre wolf - post wolf. The wolves have been in my unit for 5+ years and the elk population has actually increased. We killed elk right next to some wolf tracks our most recent season.

Some of the units in NE which have had wolves the longest have also shown steady population increases. One unit has been showing a steady increase for almost 20 years, the arrival of wolves 10+ years ago did nothing to stall the population growth. All of this is based on ODFW data and coincides with some of the highest cougar populations in the nation, bear, and coyote. If habitat is good predation is often compensatory.

There are also units where elk have decreased with the arrival of wolves. It really is a unit by unit case, they are all different. I am glad to have them back in our state - the mountains aren't the same without them. I do support science based management.

 

[Bowhunter999]

I must admit that I am not an advocate of wolf reintroduction. BWT being said, I am a little in the dark with my feelings after reading some post presented. I realize that posts giving favorable information concerning wolves, and supplied from organizations or departments who are pro wolf, can be influenced by bias and can be suspect. But that can also be stated for those who are against the wolf issue. For myself, I just can not understand the connection some claim that wolf populations have increased elk numbers.......just how is that explained ? Is that bias which is determining the figures, or are there proven reasons for this ? Several posters here have given favorable opinions of wolves in elk habitat, am I missing something here and being too closed minded in this matter ?

 

[JT88]

I must admit that I am not an advocate of wolf reintroduction. BWT being said, I am a little in the dark with my feelings after reading some post presented. I realize that posts giving favorable information concerning wolves, and supplied from organizations or departments who are pro wolf, can be influenced by bias and can be suspect. But that can also be stated for those who are against the wolf issue. For myself, I just can not understand the connection some claim that wolf populations have increased elk numbers.......just how is that explained ? Is that bias which is determining the figures, or are there proven reasons for this ? Several posters here have given favorable opinions of wolves in elk habitat, am I missing something here and being too closed minded in this matter ?

Where I hunt, wolves have displaced a lot of elk from the mountains and into the river bottoms and transition zones between the forest and the valley. Where a large number of these elk used to migrate between summer and winter ranges, there is a clear difference between the pre-wolf behavior and now. So some places exist where elk now USE more habitat that they would have avoided if wolves hadn't "pushed" them back there. In turn, there are more elk in farm fields with good food sources and less winterkill. So this is one example of how wolves displacing the elk can actually increase overall numbers. As mentioned by @Hydrophilic, it depends on the unit, terrain, human population, overall habitat etc... Remember, elk are very adaptable and aren't just mountain animals. They respond to hunting pressure and wolf predation in a way that gives them the best odds of survival. That could mean seeking sanctuaries in the mountains or on a private ranch that doesn't allow hunting. Wolves will follow the elk only so far.