Forkyfinder
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- Joined
- Dec 13, 2023
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Well since you'll be up for your annual otc NR hunt here - maybe you can just do it for us spineless cowards.
Corner crossing SCOTUS appeal
- Thread starter BuzzH
- Start date
MT Super Puncher
Active member
I think that's correct. And that'll be the problem. The case they'll prosecute is the 4 road hunters pounding Busch Light and breaking down a corner fence and causing an altercation with the landowner/LE.
BuzzH
Well-known member
And I think you're underestimating the significance of the ruling and how it could actually go wayyy farther than just crossing a corner to access public land.
Read the other cases cited in the ruling and tell me that access to public land was only happening at corners.
MT Super Puncher
Active member
Well seeing as I have significant experience in front of numerous courts and judges, I can tell you most state and federal judges in Montana don't care about what the 10th Cir does in any type of case, and will make a decision based on the outcome they want and find case law to justify it. Just a cold hard truth about the judicial system. That's the risk, getting a judge who doesn't like the idea of corner crossing. He or she could easily find plenty of law to justify his or her desired outcome.
BuzzH
Well-known member
You're running scared, no way to live life.
This whole thing is funny watching the chicken little's worry about conflicting rulings, that haven't happened. Who cares if there's a conflicting ruling in the 9th? IMO, it's not likely to happen. If it does, lets see if their case is stronger than that presented by Semerad and Mickus, et. al. I seriously doubt it.
I remember when the same chicken chits were saying, "I'm not crossing until its went to the 10th because theres no precedent". It goes to the 10th, then it's "I'm waiting until the USSC ruling". The USSC doesn't issue cert and the same people are still SCARED to access THEIR PUBLIC LANDS.
WTF? Truly unbelievable.
No big deal to me, I'll be hunting some prime country while guys like you are hiding under your bed worried about a mythical judge that doesn't like corner crossing and the law.
BTW, do you work for Knudsen or UPOM?
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I don’t think it has anything to do with fear. I am willing to continue the fight. IF there is progress to be made by pressing the issue, then in the words of Lincoln, “let the thing be pressed”. But it has to be done the right way with right people or we end up shooting ourselves in the foot. Telling guys to go cross corners in MT without thought of consequences is irresponsible.
Is BHA going to issue new guidance from this?
“We’re not here to offer legal advice on this, just clarity. And unfortunately, in our eyes, the clarity is that this is still unclear. We can only tell you to proceed at your own risk, carefully and respectfully.”
Thinking about corner crossing in Montana? Read this first.
In Montana, is Corner Crossing “unlawful,” “illegal,” or something else entirely? Across the country, the concept of “corner crossing” became the hottest topic in the hunting community when a federal judge in Wyoming ruled that, at least for the case in front of him, it did not constitute as...
www.backcountryhunters.org
Elky Welky
Well-known member
After getting through the season opener this weekend, yes, it is my plan to update that article.
However that 2023 post, at least in regards to where the law stands in Montana, is still about as accurate of an assessment as we could give and there isn't really any new caselaw here to help. The only thing that has changed in MT is we have a new FWP director. I will be calling her and asking if there is anything they are relying upon to continue to assert this position.
BuzzH
Well-known member
You just proved its fear with that sentence.I don’t think it has anything to do with fear. I am willing to continue the fight. IF there is progress to be made by pressing the issue, then in the words of Lincoln, “let the thing be pressed”. But it has to be done the right way with right people or we end up shooting ourselves in the foot. Telling guys to go cross corners in MT without thought of consequences is irresponsible.
Is BHA going to issue new guidance from this?
“We’re not here to offer legal advice on this, just clarity. And unfortunately, in our eyes, the clarity is that this is still unclear. We can only tell you to proceed at your own risk, carefully and respectfully.”
Thinking about corner crossing in Montana? Read this first.
In Montana, is Corner Crossing “unlawful,” “illegal,” or something else entirely? Across the country, the concept of “corner crossing” became the hottest topic in the hunting community when a federal judge in Wyoming ruled that, at least for the case in front of him, it did not constitute as...www.backcountryhunters.org
Glad people in Wyoming, starting way back in the 90's weren't scared of crossing corners and going to court.
Were they irresponsible to cross corners too? Or did they just pack the gear to do what's right?
Elky Welky
Well-known member
I don't think this is fear, I think it is wise. Not sure how my experience stacks up against yours, but judges and county attorneys are going to do what they are going to do, for sure. That's why we have an appeals system.
MT Super Puncher
Active member
Who pissed in your Cheerios today? Holy hell man get a grip.
Because I pointed out some valid concerns about the wrong type of case coming up in Montana I some how "work for Knudsen or UPOM"? What a self-righteous blowhard comment.
You want to do it up here, I'd be glad to represent you. Get your checkbook out to pay my retainer. Happy to take your case since you have all the answers!
BuzzH
Well-known member
I already made my case, time for you step up, tuffie. Why is it always someone else that has to do your work for you? I'm pretty confident I took a pretty big f-ing risk to my reputation, my wallet, my time, the org. I served as a chair on, and even my career to make this case happen in Wyoming. What exactly did you do? What risk did you take?
As per usual, the blisters all show up after the work is done.
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MT Super Puncher
Active member
I agree with your comments. I'm all for it happening in MT, just do it right to get the right result is all I'm saying.
MT Super Puncher
Active member
What the hell are you talking about?
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yeah, just about what I thought and expected.
El Jason
Well-known member
Some of you should go fishing.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Who says some of us aren't...and quit spooking the hole.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Nonsense. You know the amount of stupid on the internet. A lot of people you are telling to cross corners are simply going to create situations of confrontation and non-winnable cases. Who at BHA is going to tell those people "sorry, we can't help in this case"?
And I note that it wasn't Wyoming people that won this case, so the chest thumping might need to be turned down a couple of notches from 11.
A few members have clearly doubled up on the supplemental testosterone.
Elky Welky
Well-known member
Yes. I hear Florida is nice this time of year.
BuzzH
Well-known member
You might want to reconsider that post and do some research before popping off.
The 4 hunters were from Missouri in this case. The preceding case in Albany county that was pretty integral for the current one was absolutely a Wyoming resident. At that time, the WWF actually backed that guy and a Wyoming Judge, Robert Castor tossed the corner crossing case. That case resulted in an AG opinion by Pat Crank that corner crossing did not result in trespass to hunt. At that time the GF issued guidance to their wardens to not ticket for corner crossing.
Further, there were corner crossing tickets issued even after the AG opinion and the direction given by the GF director. Thanks to guys like @JM77 and his diligence as well as his relationships with various GF Directors, those tickets were tossed before they ever saw a trial or a CA's office. Lots of little gems that you don't know jack about that were dealt with before they became a problem.
Let's not forget that Brad Cape also didn't call some clown from Montana, Washington, etc. to ask if they should just pay the bond or fight the case. They contacted Jeff, who got in touch with me and asked if WYBHA would be willing to take the case on. It was also Jeff's personal attorney that recommended Ryan and 3 others for the Carbon County case. I can also tell you that guys like Jeff, Pete, Steve, myself, and others put a lot of our money into this case at the start. I also know for a fact, that Jeff paid for the retainer on at least one if not two of the attorneys not knowing if he would be reimbursed. A disproportionate amount of the funding came from WY citizens and WYBHA. I could go on all day about the number of hours that a handful of WY hunters spent on this case and its all that WYBHA has worked on for the past 5 years. Lets not also forget about the favors that WYBHA had to ask of a couple other groups that weren't afraid to tackle this monster. Of course, there were the phone calls I received from work asking questions about why I was involved in this case and the razor thin line I walked for 5 years.
So, yeah, the guys from Missouri took a chance, but they never would have without the help, guidance, money, time and effort from WY resident hunters. Ask Brad, he'll tell you the same thing.
The facts aren't chest thumping, Pal...and anytime you want to step up and do it better, I invite you to do so.
Finally, the lead attorney, in case you didn't get the memo, is a Wyoming Resident who lives in Casper. Also, in case you still aren't aware, he slam dunked this case and won big.
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birdseye
Active member
Rumor has it that JM77 shelled out some personal cash to at least one of the Mo' 4 boys for travel/lodging expenses to come to WY and face the courts. Most of you keyboard warriors don't know the backstory nor, judging from your whiny/bitchy posts, wouldn't have the huevos to fight CC. These weren't some rich guys from Missouri nor rich WY benefactors that took down an Opioid thug...it was pretty much grass roots. Like I said early, the pansies that are still afraid to CC and will stay home to help mommy bake cookies...you ain't missed out in the field
And.....love Buzz, hate Buzz...that sum'beach is persistent and should get a lot of credit...though he seems to rather highlight the efforts of other vs. taking a bow
And.....love Buzz, hate Buzz...that sum'beach is persistent and should get a lot of credit...though he seems to rather highlight the efforts of other vs. taking a bow
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