Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[brockel]

Fwp must be feeling the squeeze as they put out another press release about myths and truths about mule deer

 

[DFS]

Fwp must be feeling the squeeze as they put out another press release about myths and truths about mule deer

Gearing us up for the “new” mule deer plan which most likely was copy and pasted from the old one. I guess we will see.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Not sure why youd laugh at the survey and sponsor the bill, but here we are.

The people in region 6 probably respect it, given whats happened with harvest there. Resident buck harvest used to run ~3x non-resident harvest in r 6 (2005–08), but by 2022–25 it's nearly 1:1, nr harvest exceeding r in 2025. Non-resident buck harvest roughly tripled over the ~17-year gap while resident harvest stayed flat. NR Hunter days in the region have doubled across the data set, which i understood to be a key metric in evaluating hunting pressure.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Me also… my answers were as follows:
Abysmal, didn’t hunt elk, and decent(my last and final answer)

Based on FWP’s interpretation of their last hunter satisfaction survey I would expect a summary of your survey answers to show that @ Eric Albus experienced satisfaction with at least two out of three categories used to determine hunter’s satisfaction with their experience….

 

[SAJ-99]

Based on FWP’s interpretation of their last hunter satisfaction survey I would expect a summary of your survey answers to show that @ Eric Albus experienced satisfaction with at least two out of three categories used to determine hunter’s satisfaction with their experience….

At least the last survey could be interpreted. What are they supposed to do with "abysmal" and "decent"?

This thread (and where that survey came from, apparently) went from "how can we make changes to benefit the resource" to "who can we blame for this shit show" about 12 months ago.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Based on FWP’s interpretation of their last hunter satisfaction survey I would expect a summary of your survey answers to show that @ Eric Albus experienced satisfaction with at least two out of three categories used to determine hunter’s satisfaction with their experience….

The last one was multiple choice - not a lot of "intrepretation" there, unless im missing something.

 

[SAJ-99]

The last one was multiple choice - not a lot of "intrepretation" there, unless im missing something.

I think there was a lawsuit against FWP for saying 3 was positive.

 

[Gerald Martin]

The last one was multiple choice - not a lot of "intrepretation" there, unless im missing something.

I’d call describing a 3/5 as satisfactory,“interpretation”.

 

[sclancy27]

I’d call describing a 3/5 as satisfactory,“interpretation”.

It wasn't 3/5, it was essentially "neither" when compared to the other options which were 2 degrees of unsatisfactory and 2 degrees of satisfactory. Like a null vote that they interpreted into the positive (satisfactory) category.

 

[Gerald Martin]

It wasn't 3/5, it was essentially "neither" when compared to the other options which were 2 degrees of unsatisfactory and 2 degrees of satisfactory. Like a null vote that they interpreted into the positive (satisfactory) category.

Yours is a better explanation.

 

[SAJ-99]

It wasn't 3/5, it was essentially "neither" when compared to the other options which were 2 degrees of unsatisfactory and 2 degrees of satisfactory. Like a null vote that they interpreted into the positive (satisfactory) category.

Regardless, it’s a childish argument. Those “neither satisfied or dissatisfied” should just be thrown out.

And here was the pic forky put out on May 1 2025

 

[DFS]

Regardless, it’s a childish argument. Those “neither satisfied or dissatisfied” should just be thrown out.

And here was the pic forky put out on May 1 2025
View attachment 416744

I believe that as much as I believe the deer and antelope counts.

 

[sclancy27]

I believe that as much as I believe the deer and antelope counts.

Like knowing the sun will rise again tomorrow, your attitude is a bedrock of human existence.

 

[bigsky2]

Not sure if anyone is looking at the data that is provided with that Montana Hunters First survey, but some of it is pretty interesting. There's been a big jump in both R and NR license sales in the past 10 years.

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/aboutfwp/legislature/montana-deer--elk-license-trends-2016-2025-.pdf

• Resident total deer license sales increased from 208,224 in 2016 to 214,169 in 2025.
• Resident total elk license sales increased from 158,855 in 2016 to 171,247 in 2025.
• Nonresident total elk license sales increased from 20,761 in 2016 to 23,554 in 2025.
• Resident migratory bird license sales increased from 23,212 in 2016 to 32,363 in 2025.
• Nonresident migratory bird license sales increased from 3,490 in 2016 to 5,539 in 2025.

NR coming to Montana with only an elk B license increased by 268% (698 in 2016 to 2568 in 2025).

 

[8andcounting]

NR coming to Montana with only an elk B license increased by 268% (698 in 2016 to 2568 in 2025).

can thank for shoulder seasons and otc r4 and r5 cow tags for this

 

[sclancy27]

can thank for shoulder seasons and otc r4 and r5 cow tags for this

And R3

 

[Carnage2011]

I believe that as much as I believe the deer and antelope counts.

Not to pick on you @DFS this is just one example. I do find it funny how people cherry pick what data they use. For example, DFS doesn't believe in the numbers in the deer and antelope counts, but he does believe in the FWP data that says NR harvest is higher than R's in region 7. We complain about the data we get from phone survey's, but then we use that data to prove that there are too many NR's shooting deer in region 7. I'd just to know where I can find the book on good data vs bad?

I personally think the flights/population estimates are fairly worthless. Whenever there is a low count, we get an email saying "numbers of adult bucks observed was lower than the long-term average, but I suspect that was due to poor flight survey conditions" or something similar. It's never "we F*cked up and need to limit some harvest." I know it's to show trends, but it seems like the trend only matters when it allows more "opportunity."

I also believe that we should have mandatory reporting. However, I do not believe that it's the silver bullet that most people on Hunttalk think it will be. The same people that aren't honest on phone surveys, won't be honest for a mandatory report. That's just how those people are. I do think it could improve data based on it being fresh on someones mind as opposed to 4-6 months post hunting season.

Anyway, my .02. I'll let you get back to the echo chamber.

 

[DFS]

Not to pick on you @DFS this is just one example. I do find it funny how people cherry pick what data they use. For example, DFS doesn't believe in the numbers in the deer and antelope counts, but he does believe in the FWP data that says NR harvest is higher than R's in region 7. We complain about the data we get from phone survey's, but then we use that data to prove that there are too many NR's shooting deer in region 7. I'd just to know where I can find the book on good data vs bad?

I personally think the flights/population estimates are fairly worthless. Whenever there is a low count, we get an email saying "numbers of adult bucks observed was lower than the long-term average, but I suspect that was due to poor flight survey conditions" or something similar. It's never "we F*cked up and need to limit some harvest." I know it's to show trends, but it seems like the trend only matters when it allows more "opportunity."

I also believe that we should have mandatory reporting. However, I do not believe that it's the silver bullet that most people on Hunttalk think it will be. The same people that aren't honest on phone surveys, won't be honest for a mandatory report. That's just how those people are. I do think it could improve data based on it being fresh on someones mind as opposed to 4-6 months post hunting season.

Anyway, my .02. I'll let you get back to the echo chamber.

I think you would find that I suspect the harvest data is not correct but it is the only stat that fwp has that shows something maybe needs to change. Sorry for hunting a lot the last 25 plus years and paying attention enough to know that things have changed? I am headed out the door right now will I shoot anything very unlikely, will I watch some wildlife, I suspect so. You can keep burying your head in the sand I could give a chit less about the financials of wildlife management but when I see the changes I have seen in my lifetime you better believe I am going to say something. Sorry if I hurt your feelings or the feelings of some ginger from western Montana but I like wildlife a lot more than I like hunters so I will continue to call it how I see it.