Building preference points for youth

[bennett454]

Hey guys
I'm thinking about building some points for my two nephews one is only a couple months old and the other is 4. Is their any states that let you aquire points this young. I was thinking I've seen some states have age limits for applications like 12 I've noticed when doing my applications but can't remember what states. Anyone know off the top of their head?
Thanks a bunch guys
Just thought a good tag would make a great graduation present can't start too early

 

[npaden]

I haven't found any states that let you build points until they are legal to hunt.

 

[bennett454]

thats kinda what I've been finding which in some states is as soon as they take a hunter safety class well its a good thought I'll just have to wait a few more years lol. At least youth licenses are super cheap!

 

[Marshian]

Am I the only one who thinks it is wrong to try to give kids a bunch of bonus points? Let them wait until legal age and make it more fair for the rest of us. I'm glad states have the current rules limiting them until legal age.

 

[Zim]

Money talks. As soon as some of the states figure out there's money to be made, they will offer points to youth. They are always looking to cash in regardless of all else. Just a matter of time.

 

[CABugle]

You can apply kids in Kansas at any age.

CABugle

 

[wyoming556]

Am I the only one who thinks it is wrong to try to give kids a bunch of bonus points? Let them wait until legal age and make it more fair for the rest of us. I'm glad states have the current rules limiting them until legal age.

I definitely see your point but I don't think the downside outweighs the importance of getting kids more involved with the outdoors and less involved with Internet/texting/video gamet. Propably makes an oyo adventure more fun with your kids when you can go to a limited entry unit instead of battling the pumpkin patch with OTC tags.

The area I hunt in Kansas is a state wma. A good portion of the best hunting areas on the wma are youth hunting only. When I first saw how many deer there were in these youth areas I thought how unfair it was that I could not hunt there. I then think about how many kids get to have really good hunting available on public land. I now look forward to hunting there with my daughter when she is old enough.

 

[WapitiBob]

Hey guys
I'm thinking about building some points for my two nephews one is only a couple months old and the other is 4. Is their any states that let you aquire points this young. I was thinking I've seen some states have age limits for applications like 12 I've noticed when doing my applications but can't remember what states. Anyone know off the top of their head?
Thanks a bunch guys
Just thought a good tag would make a great graduation present can't start too early

Tell the kids parents to start buying points then when the kids are old enough, they can party app with parents and go hunt.

 

[MNHunter]

This month's Huntin Fool has a nice run down of the states and kids acquiring points

 

[kansasdad]

You can apply kids in Kansas at any age.

CABugle

I believe that is correct, but remember that ALL non-residents regardless of age must have hunter safety completed to hunt in Kansas. Residents under the age of 16 may hunt under direct supervision without a hunters safety course. Kansas will not grant a hunters safety certificate to minors 11 and under.

 

[A-con]

I was looking over the "Huntin fool" kids points article,
For the western states I'm interested in, the youngest seems to be Arizona at 10 years old. after that, 11 to apply and 12 to hunt in Utah and Wyoming.

 

[Big Fin]

Tell the kids parents to start buying points then when the kids are old enough, they can party app with parents and go hunt.

Bingo - We have a winner. My son has been accumulating points in every state, since he was old enough for each particular state. Now, he has enough points in most states to draw some amazing tags.

And if he is a kind and respectful son, he will offer to party app with his old man.

 

[Oak]

I definitely see your point but I don't think the downside outweighs the importance of getting kids more involved with the outdoors and less involved with Internet/texting/video gamet. Propably makes an oyo adventure more fun with your kids when you can go to a limited entry unit instead of battling the pumpkin patch with OTC tags.

I call BS on kids needing premium tags to stay interested in the sport. There are countless youth opportunities available to get kids in the field. A Wyoming pronghorn hunt can be as crowded or as exclusive as you want it to be....just pick the correct time to go. A parent should have a good idea of how to be successful in the home state, pumpkin patch or not. Montana lets kids hunt before adults. Colorado lets kids hunt all of the late elk seasons if they are unsuccessful during their regular season. New Mexico has terrific youth hunts available that are not terribly difficult to draw. Arizona and Nevada have great youth hunt opportunities.

My first elk tag was a cow tag, and I was just as excited to shoot that cow as I was to shoot my bull this year (until we rolled the truck on the way home ). I believe that if a kid is immersed in the sport from an early age and has a positive experience their first 2-3 times out, they will be hooked (if they are meant to be). I think that expecting premium tags for youth is just a crutch for parents who don't want to do the extra work. JMHO

 

[putm2sleep]

Building points for youth?, applying for the baby??? Ditto on BS and ditto that it is wrong! Not even knowing if they will hunt? so YOU can 'party app and hunt'. This is a complete joke. No different from poaching imo. This makes me sick. The bigger joke is this draw / point system. Waiting 20-30 years to hunt a unit is ridiculous, a hunting tragedy. Money talks, less public lands, more of this kind of shiat (people taking advantage of the system), fewer tags, more private land tags/'vouchers', where does it end? Great thread. How about just getting your nephews out fishing and hiking and scouting first.

 

[BuzzH]

Another thing to consider is that building points in many cases can TAKE AWAY opportunity for youth hunters.

I'm in a point crisis in many states...too many to burn on an "average" hunt and not enough to get the "better" units. The net result is that I've spent years gaining points and years not hunting. Same thing can happen with kids...parents dont want johnie burning his points they bought him on average units.

I'm with Oak, theres more than enough opportunity to get kids involved now...wayyyyyyy more than when I first started. When I grew up hunting in Montana I had an elk tag, a single deer tag, and had to hunt the same seasons as every other hunter. Now youth hunters in Montana get to start deer hunting a few days early, get to hunt either-sex elk and deer the whole season, have special youth only permits, etc. etc. etc.

Why is it that I stayed with hunting with no "special" seasons, tags, etc. but now we simply must give little johnie a premier tag in a premier unit and let them start a week earlier if we want them to be interested in the sport?

Its pure ego on the part of parents and has very little, if anything, to do with recruitment or doing whats best for kids. Its morphed, like most everything else in hunting, into an ego-fueled pile of crap.

 

[Big Fin]

I sat on the committee that developed the MT system for bonus points. I was by far, the youngest person on the committee. We discussed keeping some of the tags out of this bonus point system and making them random tags. My reason for such proposal was that in ten years we would have new hunters, whether youth or new adult hunters, who are going to be so far behind the system, that it is punitive to them.

All the gray hairs shot that down in a hurry. They want to make sure they get a moose, goat, sheep, or limited entry bull elk tag before they die. I understand that. But, I think it puts new hunters at a serious disadvantage.

In MT we have tons of opportunity for new hunters, given all residents can get a general deer and elk tag over the counter. So, it was not an issue of hunting opportunity for these kids. My son has shot tons of deer on these tags. Those are the hunts he has cut his teeth on and has helped develop his interest in hunting.

After that committee experience, I decided I would put my son in for every tag he was allowed, or at least buy him a point so that some day he might be close to a level playing field with all of us old farts who are worried we might not get to hunt sheep before we die.

I see nothing wrong with that. Personally, what I see as the problem is point systems themselves. I would like to junk the entire system in every state and go to the random ideas that ID and NM have. Even if that means burning all my points I have paid for in other states and my home state.

If the worry is about people drawing multiple tags during a period of time, then put a time on it as to when people cannot apply again. In MT it is seven years for moose, goat, and sheep. I think it should be the same for limited entry rifle elk and rifle deer, also.

It is ridiculous that I drew three limited entry bull tags in six years, when people have waited their entire lives for one tag. If we had the seven year wait, I would just now be allowed to apply for another tag next year.

But, so long as we have these messed up point schemes, I am going to play to the extent my wife and my wallet allow for me and my son. Point schemes were sold to us as a way to provide more "fairness."

Fairness to who? Us old beards and those of us lucky enough to be in financial and marital position to take advantage of the point scheme rules?

Life is never fair. Or what seems fair to one, is not fair to another. So, I move on and play the games that are put in place. And if I can do something to help my son possibly enjoy some of these hunts and compete with all us old dudes, I am going to do that.

I still wish I could have convinced the MT committee to keep a portion of the tags as random tags drawn without regard to points. And, I wish MT would put a waiting period on limited entry tags that have a drawing rate less than 10%, or maybe even 20%.

 

[wyoming556]

All valid points. I agree that you shouldn't have 15 preference points when you turn 16. All I was saying is that I don't feel screwed if a kid gets an advantage like an earlier season or set aside area for youth hunting.

Kids have many more reasons not to get out and enjoy the outdoors. I think it's important to keep kids interested in all aspects of the outdoors. From my perspective it seems like in general we as sportsmen are losing interest while things like movies and video games are more popular to kids.

 

[BuzzH]

I wish Montana had a once-in-a-lifetime harvest for sheep, moose, and goat...same with Wyoming.

I've already had goat and moose tags in Montana and taken both. I'd be happy if I never applied or drew again...but since they allow it...I'll very likely draw both again.

Like Fin, I just play by their rules...as ridiculous as they are sometimes.

Yes, I am part of the problem, and yes, I am a hypocrit...I should just quit applying for moose and goat...but I'm not going to because I'm not required to.

 

[Oak]

Big Fin, I agree with you wholeheartedly on the messed up point systems. I am continually amazed at the number of hunters clamoring for point systems in Idaho, New Mexico, and resident Wyoming. I've posted this quote I found on another board before, and really like the analogy:

Point systems are like that hot girl that everyone loves in high school, but turns out to be the fat chick in sweats at the 10 year reunion.

Point systems are desired by those who are "unlucky", but they don't seem quite as sweet once you've burned your max points and have few choices. I do feel sorry for kids just starting out today. But I also don't believe that the situation for those kids will end up being as bad as we perceive them to be now. Point systems will change, applicants will give up or die, and those tags will become available to today's kids more quickly than we currently predict.

One big reason why point systems don't work well is because we allow people to earn points AND hunt. I wonder what the draw odds would be if a person lost their points regardless of the tag they hunted with? Landowner voucher, draw tag, OTC bull tag, cow tag, leftover tag......if people lost their points every time they hunted a species, either the tags would get easier to draw, or there would be some great hunting in "non-premium" units.

I have points in 7 states besides Colorado. I would give them all up if every state would go to a straight random draw, with no "buy-in".

 

[WapitiBob]

"Personally, what I see as the problem is point systems themselves. I would like to junk the entire system in every state and go to the random ideas that ID and NM have."

While that is actually the best and "fairest" option, with perhaps some sort of wait period, many balk at the idea because of their "entitlement" attitude. There are those that think hunting the top unit is their right, not a privilege.

If you or your kids are just getting into the points game, you better find and exploit every loophole or you won't be doing much hunting.