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[poormanslam]

Red Sox don't win a WS for 80 some years then they join the money race with the Yankees and win 3. Coincidence?

Juice doesn't help a hitter see the ball it helps them with power. Barry saw the ball better than probably anyone ever in the game it just adds power. Barry was probably getting one pitch a game to hit and put up unbelievable numbers one cannot argue about the ability of hitters on juice but one can argue with the way the ball comes off of the bat

 

[fowladdict]

Your original comment was Cards build teams and Sox buy teams....Tell me again how many homegrown guys the Red Sox didn't have on the WS roster? Had to be pretty similar to the number the Cardinals had. The Cards three best, Beltran, Holliday and Wainwright are not homegrown. Both the Cards and Sox have VERY bright futures with the homegrown talent. I wonder how the Yanks, Dodgers, Phillies and Angels feel all that money they spent did for them this year.

As far as the juice comment...that is 5 years old now. If you are juicing today you will be caught.

Anyways always a few Sox haters out there...all in good fun.

 

[1_pointer]

Your original comment was Cards build teams and Sox buy teams....Tell me again how many homegrown guys the Red Sox didn't have on the WS roster? Had to be pretty similar to the number the Cardinals had. The Cards three best, Beltran, Holliday and Wainwright are not homegrown. Both the Cards and Sox have VERY bright futures with the homegrown talent. I wonder how the Yanks, Dodgers, Phillies and Angels feel all that money they spent did for them this year.

As far as the juice comment...that is 5 years old now. If you are juicing today you will be caught.

Anyways always a few Sox haters out there...all in good fun.

I don't know the numbers for the Sox, but IIRC the number of homegrown players on StLs roster was 17 or 18. I do remember during the NLCS that the numbers for StL and LAD were the complete opposite when comparing Drafted, Free Agents/Trades.

PS- I'd almost consider Wainwright as 'homegrown' as he was still in the minors when they got him from Atlanta. His debut was with StL.

 

[fowladdict]

I don't know the numbers for the Sox, but IIRC the number of homegrown players on StLs roster was 17 or 18. I do remember during the NLCS that the numbers for StL and LAD were the complete opposite when comparing Drafted, Free Agents/Trades.

PS- I'd almost consider Wainwright as 'homegrown' as he was still in the minors when they got him from Atlanta. His debut was with StL.

Wow!!! Didn't know the number was that high for the Cards. I should research a little more before I type. I think Boston had around 8-10. Not as many as the Cards, but still respectable. I knew Wainwright was part of the trade for JD Drew...that was all I remembered. Didn't know that he hadn't pitched in the bigs yet. IMHO opinion the Sox won this series with the talent they grew, a guy the Twins were stupid to let go of 10 plus years ago and a bunch of veterans other teams thought were washed up or not willing to throw long term contracts at. One of the first WS in my recent memory that does not involve a superstar FA signed by either team. (I don't really consider Lackey, Beltran or Holliday to be superstars)

Enjoy the hat!!

 

[poormanslam]

fowl addict if i had posted for several years on this site trophy mule deer bucks and you found out later that they were all poached. If I then posted new trophy bucks would you be suspect of them? I hope so, 5 years means nothing. I am not a Red Sox hater just trying to state facts.

Look at the last five years of the draft and tell me how many Red Sox are on the WS roster are from those drafts. The Cardinals have at least nine players from those drafts...Cards build teams.

Wainwright their best player? Didnt he lose two games in the series? beltran and Holliday had very good Series but they are also the two most experienced players on the field for them. Give Carpenter and a few of the young guys time and they too will produce.

 

[poormanslam]

fowl addict acquiring players that are washed up is not growing them. Drafting them and putting them in your farm system and developing that talent is growing a team.

 

[fowladdict]

fowl addict if i had posted for several years on this site trophy mule deer bucks and you found out later that they were all poached. If I then posted new trophy bucks would you be suspect of them? I hope so, 5 years means nothing. I am not a Red Sox hater just trying to state facts.

So if a team has a player that is not home grown it is considered poaching? I fail to see the similarities. But then again I am not that bright.

Look at the last five years of the draft and tell me how many Red Sox are on the WS roster are from those drafts. The Cardinals have at least nine players from those drafts...Cards build teams.

I don't know about the last five years. Why do only the last five years matter? As I stated the Sox still had 8-10 guys on the roster that were home grown. Who cares how long ago they made it into the bigs.

Wainwright their best player? Didnt he lose two games in the series? beltran and Holliday had very good Series but they are also the two most experienced players on the field for them. Give Carpenter and a few of the young guys time and they too will produce.

The Sox also beat Verlander, Scherzer, Moore, Price, and Wacha. Do you not think those guys are some of the best? IMHO the WS lacked steady offense from both teams with the exception of Ortiz. And as I stated earlier, both the Sox and Cards have some homegrown talent to look forward to for a long time. Carpenter looks like a stud. Boegarts looks even better.

 

[fowladdict]

fowl addict acquiring players that are washed up is not growing them. Drafting them and putting them in your farm system and developing that talent is growing a team.

I don't think I said anything about washed up players being the same as growing them.

You win...Regardless I am going to savor this WS win!

 

[poormanslam]

My reference to poaching was intended for Big Papi he was in the Mitchell report and you said that was 5 years ago. So I correlated it to the poaching analogy, credibility is important I think. Can we ever trust Ryan Braun again? I am sure some can, but I cannot, he will always be a cheater to me just like Manny Ramirez. These players that get caught in most cases are stellar athletes and will have great careers it is amazing that they will try anything to get to the next level.

 

[----]

The only good thing about these playoffs for me is that they're over. Watching FOX do mental gymnastics on why we should care about Boston winning yet another series was painful to say the least.

Neither team's exactly easy to root for from a third party perspective. The Ortiz lovedest got old a long time ago as well...

 

[fowladdict]

My reference to poaching was intended for Big Papi he was in the Mitchell report and you said that was 5 years ago. So I correlated it to the poaching analogy, credibility is important I think. Can we ever trust Ryan Braun again? I am sure some can, but I cannot, he will always be a cheater to me just like Manny Ramirez. These players that get caught in most cases are stellar athletes and will have great careers it is amazing that they will try anything to get to the next level.

Gotcha...Having played ball in the 90's through college. Steroids don't faze me. I saw it firsthand. In college I witnessed the players do anything to try to get a leg up. It was awkward sitting in the same room while a guy juiced up without caring about his teammates seeing it. Even the coaches. I'm glad they are cleaning up. I could care less about what happened up to 2007-2008. If you juiced prior to that you weren't alone. If you are juicing now, you will be caught. What Ortiz is doing at 37 without the juice is impressive. If he did indeed juice prior to the mitchell report it is NOT helping him now. When he is that zone he gets into, he is just that good.

 

[tjones]

The only good thing about these playoffs for me is that they're over. Watching FOX do mental gymnastics on why we should care about Boston winning yet another series was painful to say the least.

Neither team's exactly easy to root for from a third party perspective. The Ortiz lovedest got old a long time ago as well...

Dude you sound bitter. Switch to the dark side, there is still room on the Sox, Yanks band wagon.

You did get to see a walk off pick off.

 

[noharleyyet]

I'm for anyone except the Yankees or the Angels.

 

[poormanslam]

Okay we agree to disagree. Your attitude is if everybody is doing it it is okay I don't buy into that. Two years ago Papi was done now he bats 800 in the series and the rest of the two teams bat 200? Is he or anyone else that good? No.
The best minds in science are always two steps ahead of drug testing especially if money is involved. How many drug tests did Lance Armstrong fail? Zero that's right he was caught after the fact. Does MLB want the feel good story of Papi crushed? Of course not that is why they did not release the Mitchell report in the first place. They do not want their stars exposed. It is about selling they want the yankees and Red Sox to play against the Dodgers in the World Series it's that simple. They make more money that way.

 

[noharleyyet]

Please don't tell me what my attitude is It's only a millionaire's game, which I could not possibly give a flip less about. Visual chewing gum. If the Sox are your windmill, more power to you.

 

[diem24]

FowlAddict is 100% correct. I played college ball in the late 90s at the height of the juice era in baseball. It was all over even at that level. There were guys using it heavily. Play the spring and then come back in a summer carrying 20-30 lbs of new found muscle in the fall. 3 guys from my team were drafted and played a few years in the bigs. All 3 I personally saw using needles. It's a part of baseball and slowly becoming less of a part of the game. What BigPapi did was amazing but it was not juiced hitting. He is a special hitter like Bonds, Gwynn, Ted Williams etc., and cheater or not, Bonds is one of baseballs best hitters and would not swing at bad pitches. Neither does BP. It's much easier to hit strikes than balls at your shoelaces. That type of discipline isn't found in a syringe.

 

[poormanslam]

Dont think I was referring to your comments harley

 

[poormanslam]

diem 24 you make the point I did earlier juice increases power not seeing the ball. Saying Big Papi does not swing at bad pitches is ludicrous for five years he hit over 300 once. His life time average is 287. Bonds never had a slump like that I dont think Papi is a shell of the hitter Bonds was. Bonds also played defense.

"it was all over even at that level".

My 18 year old daughter comes home and says that a lot of kids are using cocaine in school so she is doing the same. I will use your logic, that is okay I can accept that seeing as so many kids are doing it.

 

[diem24]

Poor man, you have a lot of abstract examples to defend your position but there's one flaw. I never said 100% of baseball players use juice. I didn't n nor did a lot of my teammates. Just like not every mlb player is. Give credit where credit is due. When he got pitches (aka wasn't being intentionally walked) he hit them n hit them well. Clearly you and I know a lot more than the Cardinals managers, scouts, pitchers, waterboy and we would have lobbed meatballs up there to him (opposite). Sportsmanship is being good winner n being a good loser. I bleed blue like a true Cardinal hater (aka Cub fan) so I'm familiar w the not so popular art of showing sportsmanship by being a good loser. Perennially. That being said the Cards and Sox had amazing years. The Cards need to hang on to the young guys bc thru are really something and should have a Braves-like rotation to use a foundation for many many years of winning teams

 

[1_pointer]

Poor man, you have a lot of abstract examples to defend your position but there's one flaw. I never said 100% of baseball players use juice. I didn't n nor did a lot of my teammates. Just like not every mlb player is. Give credit where credit is due. When he got pitches (aka wasn't being intentionally walked) he hit them n hit them well. Clearly you and I know a lot more than the Cardinals managers, scouts, pitchers, waterboy and we would have lobbed meatballs up there to him (opposite). Sportsmanship is being good winner n being a good loser. I bleed blue like a true Cardinal hater (aka Cub fan) so I'm familiar w the not so popular art of showing sportsmanship by being a good loser. Perennially. That being said the Cards and Sox had amazing years. The Cards need to hang on to the young guys bc thru are really something and should have a Braves-like rotation to use a foundation for many many years of winning teams

Agreed! They 'stable' of young arms is amazing. If they get to the WS as often as the Braves did, I hope they have a better track record when it's all said and done.