Ballot Initiative to End NR Big Game Hunting?

[mtmuley]

Hunting or just visiting, I would really like to see that part of Montana myself.

Hit the Sweetgrass Hills if you get up there. mtmuley

 

[BlazerBeam]

Going to correct you here. Only a few believe its a non resident issue. The rest of us are fully aware of our shitty management and season structure

The seasons have always been the same for as long as I can remember........why has hunting gone downhill?? NW MT elk, to eastern MT deer. For real, what is different about today's management and seasons that has made the quality of hunting less than what the management and season's were in the 90's and early 2000's?

 

[DFS]

The seasons have always been the same for as long as I can remember........why has hunting gone downhill?? NW MT elk, to eastern MT deer. For real, what is different about today's management and seasons that has made the quality of hunting less than what the management and season's were in the 90's and early 2000's?

People have become more effective hunters, hunters have been congregated, hunting styles have changed, people are staying longer. Habitat has been lost and overall mule deer populations have declined. Tons of reasons.

 

[brockel]

The seasons have always been the same for as long as I can remember........why has hunting gone downhill?? NW MT elk, to eastern MT deer. For real, what is different about today's management and seasons that has made the quality of hunting less than what the management and season's were in the 90's and early 2000's?

Checked out Montana’s resident population lately? Was probably on a slow downhill slope then as well we have just made it that much farther down the hill. There’s almost 1/4 of a million more people in Montana than there was 30 years ago. If 20% of those people hunt do you think there’s an extra 50,000/year more elk and deer running around in huntable areas than there was 30 Years ago to shoot?

 

[Straight Arrow]

My Grandparents were probably the last people to live in a town called Ferdig. Town is all gone, but the old house is still there. mtmuley

Nice quiet place, just east of Oilmont and down the road from Whitlash. Nearby Sweetgrass Hills are very nice.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Hit the Sweetgrass Hills if you get up there. mtmuley

Shush ... it's crowded enough up there!

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Shush ... it's crowded enough up there!

View attachment 213809

Miss that place.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

The seasons have always been the same for as long as I can remember........why has hunting gone downhill?? NW MT elk, to eastern MT deer. For real, what is different about today's management and seasons that has made the quality of hunting less than what the management and season's were in the 90's and early 2000's?

For starters, you won’t find a singular answer that encompasses the entirety of big game hunting. But, let’s see:

1) Longer seasons
2) Reduced public access to private land
3) Significant changes in elk migration and or distribution
4) Increased emphasis on trophy hunting
5) Increased effectiveness of weapons
6) Increased pressure on public land herds (see 2)
7) Increased MT resident population
8) Disruption of winter range and/or migration corridors
9) Long term declines of mule deer in western Montana

Other than that, nothing really. Must be the NR hunters and their pimps.

 

[BlazerBeam]

Checked out Montana’s resident population lately? Was probably on a slow downhill slope then as well we have just made it that much farther down the hill. There’s almost 1/4 of a million more people in Montana than there was 30 years ago. If 20% of those people hunt do you think there’s an extra 50,000/year more elk and deer running around in huntable areas than there was 30 Years ago to shoot?

Exactly. people downplay this connection between media-->NR hunter-->resident hunter. I believe that this cycle is what is ultimately responsible for the decline in hunt quality. And most of these people that I have beef with are the ones that have existed in all three of those phases. So in a round about way, yes it is the NR's fault, because they soon enough become a resident. But I believe that its more of the media horse shit that is the real problem.

People have become more effective hunters, hunters have been congregated, hunting styles have changed,

Again, eliminate the step by step tutorials on how to hunt elk and say get yer ass out there and figure it out.

 

[DFS]

Again, eliminate the step by step tutorials on how to hunt elk and say get yer ass out there and figure it out.

I agree but unfortunately the ship has sailed the damage has been done and can’t be undone. Hunting has been made an industry and a lot of people are doing their best to capitalize on that.

 

[Gerald Martin]

"soley?" nooooooo way I buy that. But please explain your reasoning further and how the residents who decided that include the majority of MT hunters who are bustin ass in a job that does not give them constant access to hunttalk to stay as educated as yourself.

Debbie Barrett’s legislation that requires FWP to keep elk at the population objective was passed by MT legislature to appease the ranching and agricultural lobby.

That mandate is the framework for why MT has unlimited cow tags in some units and such liberal bag limits.

Residents pushed through shoulder seasons.

The complaint of too many elk is almost completely a resident complaint.

The complaint against limited bull tags in permit areas and having to draw for a license is a NR landowner complaint to a greater degree, but that is a different issue unrelated to the higher numbers of NR hunters.

(Edit). That fact doesn’t include a majority of MT resident hunters. If you think MT legislative wildlife policy and FWP management strategies are decided on by a majority of Montana resident hunters you are in for a rude awakening when you see who has been steering the ship. Don’t look too closely if you like to vote red. You won’t like what you see.

 

[BlazerBeam]

For starters, you won’t find a singular answer that encompasses the entirety of big game hunting. But, let’s see:

1) Longer seasons
2) Reduced public access to private land
3) Significant changes in elk migration and or distribution
4) Increased emphasis on trophy hunting
5) Increased effectiveness of weapons
6) Increased pressure on public land herds (see 2)
7) Increased MT resident population
8) Disruption of winter range and/or migration corridors
9) Long term declines of mule deer in western Montana

Other than that, nothing really. Must be the NR hunters and their pimps.

All symptoms of the selling of all things hunting and western states living in general. #stopthepimps

 

[RobertD]

Exactly. people downplay this connection between media-->NR hunter-->resident hunter. I believe that this cycle is what is ultimately responsible for the decline in hunt quality. And most of these people that I have beef with are the ones that have existed in all three of those phases. So in a round about way, yes it is the NR's fault, because they soon enough become a resident.

In a round about way, huh? You're not even making real arguments.

If the premise is true, and desire to hunt Montana is so strong that NRs eventually become residents, then wouldn't ending NR hunting just speed up the process by encouraging more NRs to become residents?

 

[Gerald Martin]

I agree but unfortunately the ship has sailed the damage has been done and can’t be undone. Hunting has been made an industry and a lot of people are doing their best to capitalize on that.

Stick to the framework of 17,500 cap on general tags, 10% of elk and deer B licenses and how hunting is marketed won’t have a detrimental effect on the resource.

Publicizing MT hunting will have an effect on how hard it is to draw a NR tag but since numbers are capped at a constant, the effect on the resource won’t increase.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

#stopthepimps

I’ll loan you my clipboard and a pen.

 

[Gerald Martin]

BTW,

It was MT resident outfitters that cried to the legislature and got them to pass unlimited NR tags in 2021 for clients who were booked and unsuccessful in the draw.
#stopthepimps

 

[Shangobango]

All symptoms of the selling of all things hunting and western states living in general. #stopthepimps

Good Lawd...

 

[Gerald Martin]

Also, the entire economy of MT would collapse if MT resident outfitters can’t get enough tags for NR clients.

#Fact
#JustaskMacMinard
#sarcasm

 

[DFS]

Stick to the framework of 17,500 cap on general tags, 10% of elk and deer B licenses and how hunting is marketed won’t have a detrimental effect on the resource.

Publicizing MT hunting will have an effect on how hard it is to draw a NR tag but since numbers are capped at a constant, the effect on the resource won’t increase.

Publicizing Montana hunting when you have a statewide tag congregated hunters, that is a fact.

 

[mtmuley]

Shush ... it's crowded enough up there!

View attachment 213809

It will never be the same. Went up with a buddy that had an elk tag to help out and maybe find a good muley. What a zoo. mtmuley