D
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Very unsettling.
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Nameless Range and JLS
Something else that is unsettling to me is that everything I am reading today on this forum and the news outlets are somewhat the same comments that were stated in 1992 during and after the Rodney King Riots.
Bigjay73 also makes a good point. Some do try however. There are some men on this forum who reach out to--veterans , abused and abandoned children, others----- but sometimes it is hard just to care for ourselves and our families.
I certainly do not have the answer or a magic wand, but wish I did.
Something else that is unsettling to me is that everything I am reading today on this forum and the news outlets are somewhat the same comments that were stated in 1992 during and after the Rodney King Riots.
Bigjay73 also makes a good point. Some do try however. There are some men on this forum who reach out to--veterans , abused and abandoned children, others----- but sometimes it is hard just to care for ourselves and our families.
I certainly do not have the answer or a magic wand, but wish I did.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
This concerns me on many issues. There is no FDR, Reagan, JFK, Billy Grahm, MLK, Churchill, Gandhi, etc. I fear that our toxic news cycle culture has left us without credible and unifying leaders. Many good people choose to avoid public service all together because of the mess, and those that try are just punching bags for the daily sh*t storm. Will we ever allow a leader to emerge or will we just tear them all down?
No person is fault-free. Great leaders of the past all had shortcomings, but lived in a time where not every element of a person was laid bare to daily scrutiny. We allowed ourselves to respect them for their strengths while allowing for (or being ignorant of) their weakness. There are dangers in idolizing the flawed, but there is also danger in being so critical and cynical that we respect no one. Frankly the pendulum has swung too far in my opinion. We need to embrace leaders with character, empathy and a positive vision for all not just their core base, and then we need to give them some grace on the normal foibles of being human. To do otherwise is to become rudderless.
Fire_9
Well-known member
That article is really an eye opener for me because I’ve never experienced that in any way shape or form. Blows my mind that stuff still happens this day in age.
huronmtns
Well-known member
The reason I ask is that the cervical spine can be very delicate especially as we age. The cervical vertebra from the C-3 level or higher can affect primary neurologic life function. Fracture, displacement, or hemorrhage, caused by this "police subdual move" can cause the cardiopulmonary arrest. It does not matter what color, race, or sex, that you are. This Neck Subdual Move should be illegal to use by anybody unless murder is the intent. This move should be banned for use of police world wide. It is not a responsible or reasonable form of restraint. Perhaps a US wide training session eliminating this would save lives and riots as a result.
KB_
Well-known member
I think there are numerous problems rearing their ugly heads. These are good conversations to be had and are best left at that Conversations and peaceful protesting.
While I think the reason why we are seeing rioting is because people are just boiling over from dealing with loss of work, COVID and then a public example of a cop that is incompetent. It was really the perfect storm, and it makes you wonder what is next. People are really sensitive right now and they should be. What happened was wrong and it needs to be dealt with appropriately. The fact that George Floyd may not have been a good guy is besides the fact. He didn't deserve to get murdered, or did he deserve to be put all over social media for everybody to watch him die an do nothing about it. Why were those people just filming and not doing something, had I been there I would have spartan kicked that cop in the freaking dome, likely would have gotten my head kicked in in the process but I would have tried. I was sickened that nobody stepped in and simply stood there and just talked.
Here is another problem, and its not just with the police. Its way to easy to be a police officer in this country. You get losers that slip thru the cracks, panic when it gets a little chaotic and you see things like this happen. I haven't seen this brought up anywhere sadly. How about enforce some more training for these people, give them tools to actually get better at their jobs.
I hate what has happened and I hate that protests are leading to rioting. I served to protect our rights and our right to protest is just that, a right. We do not have the right to go out looting and rioting and destroying our homes, we are smarter then this.
Perhaps i'm just blind to most, I grew up in a mixed family. Nobody every got treated differently, we all got spanked, fed and loved the same exact way. Its 2020, and its been a year we would all like to forget in some ways. But ill remain optimistic and I think it will get better. Good things will come of this soon and the country will be stronger soon.
September really needs to get here soon.
While I think the reason why we are seeing rioting is because people are just boiling over from dealing with loss of work, COVID and then a public example of a cop that is incompetent. It was really the perfect storm, and it makes you wonder what is next. People are really sensitive right now and they should be. What happened was wrong and it needs to be dealt with appropriately. The fact that George Floyd may not have been a good guy is besides the fact. He didn't deserve to get murdered, or did he deserve to be put all over social media for everybody to watch him die an do nothing about it. Why were those people just filming and not doing something, had I been there I would have spartan kicked that cop in the freaking dome, likely would have gotten my head kicked in in the process but I would have tried. I was sickened that nobody stepped in and simply stood there and just talked.
Here is another problem, and its not just with the police. Its way to easy to be a police officer in this country. You get losers that slip thru the cracks, panic when it gets a little chaotic and you see things like this happen. I haven't seen this brought up anywhere sadly. How about enforce some more training for these people, give them tools to actually get better at their jobs.
I hate what has happened and I hate that protests are leading to rioting. I served to protect our rights and our right to protest is just that, a right. We do not have the right to go out looting and rioting and destroying our homes, we are smarter then this.
Perhaps i'm just blind to most, I grew up in a mixed family. Nobody every got treated differently, we all got spanked, fed and loved the same exact way. Its 2020, and its been a year we would all like to forget in some ways. But ill remain optimistic and I think it will get better. Good things will come of this soon and the country will be stronger soon.
September really needs to get here soon.
glass eye
Well-known member
No doubt racism is alive and well. However, not every injustice, missed opportunities, or failures are because of racism. Some cops are bullies and are equal opportunity thugs and will administer a good thumping for no reason to any color. Some are just thugs. It's shame that all cops get the blame for a few.
All too often we see racism lifted up as an excuse as to why this happened or that didn't happen.
Colors don't hate, people do.
I'm not unsympathetic to victims of racism. My wife is Mexican and her English is broken. I've seen the cruelty that racist have attacked her with.
I lived in Hawaii where being white isn't a privilege. I've been singled out and run out. I've been denied service at a checkout line. I've had my food order sabotaged so that I wouldn't come back. I could go on and on.
I've only had a small taste of being the victim of my skin color.
I don't believe that any of this violent protest has done anything to abolish racism, but rather has only fueled the fires.
Teach your children well seems to be the only answer.
All too often we see racism lifted up as an excuse as to why this happened or that didn't happen.
Colors don't hate, people do.
I'm not unsympathetic to victims of racism. My wife is Mexican and her English is broken. I've seen the cruelty that racist have attacked her with.
I lived in Hawaii where being white isn't a privilege. I've been singled out and run out. I've been denied service at a checkout line. I've had my food order sabotaged so that I wouldn't come back. I could go on and on.
I've only had a small taste of being the victim of my skin color.
I don't believe that any of this violent protest has done anything to abolish racism, but rather has only fueled the fires.
Teach your children well seems to be the only answer.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
A big eye opener for me was a number of years ago when in the same week two events occurred in the same general neighborhood (a largely white suburb). Me, a middle aged white guy, does a “slow and go” right hand turn through a stop sign. A cop was right there and flipped his lights. When he asks for license and insurance I realized I had forgotten to print my latest version out. After running my license the cop gives me a friendly verbal warning. No ticket for the moving violation or the lack of evidence of insurance. A couple of days later a black friend (who was a cop in another local community) gets pulled over for no declared reason. The officer does not tell him why he was pulled over and does not seem to care that he his a fellow cop. He makes my friend get out of his car and lay on the ground. He calls in two other cars for backup and makes my friend lay there at gun point until they arrive. After the now 5 cops run his license and decide he has violated no laws they let him go without even an apology. So much for Minnesota nice.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
It's hard not to think that social media and the internet may have broken the American Brain.
I don't want to stray too far, but I can't help but think America gets the leaders we deserve. If there are "sides" to this, which I would reject but could see someone framing it that way, on one hand the standards many Americans have for leadership has no scruples whatsoever, no consistency, and the exaltation of certain people in their leadership positions by certain people seems nearly arbitrary in relation to their positions and performance. On the other hand there are great pools of people to draw from for leadership. They are out there. But if they don't self flagellate accordingly. If they don't speak the incantations perfectly, they are the enemy. The tent gets tinier. Both standards seem to happen concurrently. Rudderless is right.
To the OP, it's so eye opening. I have gone on work trips in Montana with a colleague who is a person of color. That individual wouldn't go out to eat in certain small town establishments because of numerous instances they had encountered over the last decade. I remember talking to them about these instances, and thinking to myself how this person has no place that feels like home in the way that I do. It's not a stretch to me that so many feel like a "man without a country", and where that feeling may lead once desperate enough.
huronmtns
Well-known member
You have stated it very well. The press and too many forms of media are acting like a pendulum that is swinging way to far in both directions to create drama. I guess they figured out that this drama is what gets attention from viewers. I am about done watching the news at the national level because of the built in bias that the reporters generate.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
A colleague of mine (black) told me that when he travels in Midwest he builds in travel time to make sure he arrives at the destination with enough time to eat and get checked in before dark. And when his car needs gas he will sit in his car in the parking lot for 3-4 minutes to get a sense of the reaction to him there - if he gets a bad vibe he goes down the road to the next station. This man is a veteran, this man is a hard working father and husband, this man is a leader in the community - but this is his reality. It is heart breaking that this is the case in 2020 in the supposedly friendly Great Plains. There is much more of this going on than many of us are aware. It is time to listen with an open heart.
Mudder
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I've spent my whole life working with deplorable/essentials and the near fallacy that minorities are abused has some small credence. My whole generation was about giving them special treatment and a leg up. But a reality check, prejudice works both ways. Minority communities are often high crime so there is bound to be more Police interaction. IMO the minority communities do a poor job of policing their own. Seriously, guile and aggression won't get you very far in my neighborhood, while it seems to be ignored in many minority neighborhoods and then justified by the feeling of victimhood. In German, there is a phrase Teufelskreis which translates to devils circle.
Some minorities also use/abuse the victimhood mantle as leverage and some use it as privilege. A privilege to be abusive, aggressive, and crooked and if you protest you are prejudiced. They talk about white privilege IMO this phrase is much like the Russian collusion narrative, the best defense is to accuse somebody else of doing what you are guilty of.
Five thousand applicants for openings in the L.A.F.D. 1972. I was high enough on the list I was in. I never checked the minority box on the application, I look white. Affirmative action kicked in and they had to go to somewhere near five hundred on the list to start filling vacancies. Stuff like this is bound to leave a bad taste in somebody's mouth. I studied and trained for two years for that test. I'm not particularly prejudiced, it would be a sick joke if I were, there are enough blacks in my family tree.
But I will say something that will likely get me banned, like the old saying; I have no problem with a person being gay, I just wish they wouldn't be a faggot about it. The same goes with Blacks, I have no issue with blacks, I just wish they wouldn't be niggers about it.
Some minorities also use/abuse the victimhood mantle as leverage and some use it as privilege. A privilege to be abusive, aggressive, and crooked and if you protest you are prejudiced. They talk about white privilege IMO this phrase is much like the Russian collusion narrative, the best defense is to accuse somebody else of doing what you are guilty of.
Five thousand applicants for openings in the L.A.F.D. 1972. I was high enough on the list I was in. I never checked the minority box on the application, I look white. Affirmative action kicked in and they had to go to somewhere near five hundred on the list to start filling vacancies. Stuff like this is bound to leave a bad taste in somebody's mouth. I studied and trained for two years for that test. I'm not particularly prejudiced, it would be a sick joke if I were, there are enough blacks in my family tree.
But I will say something that will likely get me banned, like the old saying; I have no problem with a person being gay, I just wish they wouldn't be a faggot about it. The same goes with Blacks, I have no issue with blacks, I just wish they wouldn't be niggers about it.
D
Deleted member 20812
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So in other words, it’s okay to be different, just don’t offend me in doing so? Thats certainly not the pinnacle of tolerance.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Wow - that’s one way to prove OPs point.
Mudder
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Two techniques while moving through a crowd. One way is to push your way through, scowling, and intimidating. Another is like a Scatback or a Soccer player, try to get through with as little contact as possible. Or like my son says courtesy doesn't cost anything.
Panda Bear
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Good point April
we react--protest, riot, have a conversation, pass new laws----and then forget about it, until the next Rodney King or George Floyd.
I dont experience it among hunters and outdoors folks for the most part but when I went back east to college, it was very much alive and well. I was surprised at how much some people hate ! Being an Indian automatically made me dumb, even dangerous. I did not get invited to parties, study groups, and other activities that white college students took for granted. I am sure it is one reason I returned to the far North after graduation.
I am not joking about outdoors people, at least in general. People who show up to hunt, fish, explore are always good folks and my dogs dont seem to be prejudiced at all, as long as I feed them.
However there is always an exception to the rule. One fellow 4 or 5 years ago ask if he could have a non Indian guide for him.
I do have an issues with ignorant people proving such ignorance on my platforms. Remember the old Toyota commercial, "You asked for it, you got it....."
Bye!
D
Deleted member 20812
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Prior to getting 86’d, Mudder did a wonderful job of displaying the attitude of, “its okay to be different, just don’t do it in a way that makes me uncomfortable “. He then doubled down and made the analogy of slipping through a crowd unseen.
The ignorance is stunning, but honestly he did a far more effective job of driving home the reality than I ever could. Our society fears people who are different.
Hard to define racism when not involved in such actions. No doubt it exists. During the Rodney King riots, I worked JC Penny as a loss prevention officer. I recall boarding up windows to prevent looting, etc. Was an ugly scene.
This person's perspective on life is frustrating to embrace. In law enforcement, the constant allegations of racism is screwed. If you're white, you're a racist because the situation calls for further investigation, detention of a person... and if that person is "black", diverting his frustration of his criminal actions by making it a racial situation...
It's frustrating to embrace because racism exists and laws must be enforced - regardless skin color. It's frustrating to be on the receiving end of a criminal alleging racism simply because an Officer, sworn to protect, to the extent of placing life on the line, must defend actions taken simply because he's white. Or... I've had my partner called an Uncle Tom because he's enforcing the law.
It's disappointing to read of slashed tires and threats of drowning due to the color of skin and merely embracing free fresh pine air while wetting a line.
America has made significant strides in race relations, imo.
It's disappointing to read of Federal Protective Services Officer murdered in Oakland... Or retired police chief David Dorn murdered protecting property... The lists go on and on. These Americans were "black"... Did it matter to the rioters? It's sad to think back to Reginald Denny... Wrong place, wrong time. Did it matter to the rioters?
Racism rears its ugly head and used as an excuse for a "free" new TV... All smiles!
Racism sucks.
This person's perspective on life is frustrating to embrace. In law enforcement, the constant allegations of racism is screwed. If you're white, you're a racist because the situation calls for further investigation, detention of a person... and if that person is "black", diverting his frustration of his criminal actions by making it a racial situation...
It's frustrating to embrace because racism exists and laws must be enforced - regardless skin color. It's frustrating to be on the receiving end of a criminal alleging racism simply because an Officer, sworn to protect, to the extent of placing life on the line, must defend actions taken simply because he's white. Or... I've had my partner called an Uncle Tom because he's enforcing the law.
It's disappointing to read of slashed tires and threats of drowning due to the color of skin and merely embracing free fresh pine air while wetting a line.
America has made significant strides in race relations, imo.
It's disappointing to read of Federal Protective Services Officer murdered in Oakland... Or retired police chief David Dorn murdered protecting property... The lists go on and on. These Americans were "black"... Did it matter to the rioters? It's sad to think back to Reginald Denny... Wrong place, wrong time. Did it matter to the rioters?
Racism rears its ugly head and used as an excuse for a "free" new TV... All smiles!
Racism sucks.
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