A Navy Veteran’s perspective on racism

[Deleted member 20812]

Good read.

Thoughts on the killing of George Floyd

Wait before you judge. Take a deep breath. Because you can. In the wake of the murder of George Floyd, I’ve seen countless people on social media expressing their rage — not about George’s death or about the underlying problem of inequality in our country — but about looting and physical damage...

www.hatchmag.com

 

[azelkhntr]

GF was not a good person. Career criminal with numerous felonies and multiple convictions and prison terms. His last arrest was for trying to push a counterfeit $20 onto an unsuspecting citizen who was on it. During this guy’s initial contact with the Leo’s he dropped a dime bag of white; obviously racist” powder on to the ground. Oops . His autopsy showed fentanyl, cocaine and mj in his blood. Snap! Yeah this is the guy I’m gonna riot for.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

@azelkhntr Go away. Your ignorance is staggering.

Drugs are not grounds for being murdered. The minute Mr. Floyd stopped breathing and went unconscious, absolutely every single circumstance up to that point became irrelevant, because the officer did not change his tactics nor did he render aid.

Regardless, none of this has any bearing on the racism illustrated in Mr. Brown’s article. I certainly wouldn’t expect you to parse out the difference, but you will remain part of the problem America.

 

[azelkhntr]

I don’t know where the basalt rocks are; Yakima maybe; but I do know that down here on the border with Mexico, yeah, drugs are most definitely grounds for murder. Oh don’t get me wrong. I don’t think what happened to that man was copacetic. Bad business right? I’ve learned a lot about racism over time and the thing I tell people is that it’s the most obviously stupidest thing humans are plagued with. You, as an individual child of G-D have no choice in the matter of your birth. It’s all random chance. The only relevancy is mind.

 

[Nunyacreek]

Thank you for the article. I live in a very comfortable world of privilege where it is easy to think that systemic racism does not impinge on the things I do and love; the author makes a compelling case that such racism is everywhere. For me the takeaway might be to confront it if I see it and acknowledge it even if I don’t.
I heard a reporter quote her pastor, and I’ll Paraphrase here:
“When people are in pain and cannot make their pain heard they will eventually make you feel their pain.”
For me this helped explain how protests turn into riots. I am not sure what to do about any of this but I feel that maybe I am closer to understanding some of it.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Man, eye opening, and I'm not talking about just azelkhntr's words...

I never woulda thought how it could affect an outdoorsman like that. Getting death threats for fly fishing? That's unreal.

Puts it into better perspective how much I don't even realize racism is present outdoors.

 

[406dn]

Very sobering read. It really drives home the reality that the life a person of color lives is so much different than the one I enjoy.

The victim shaming that is used to justify a horrific act sickens me. There is NOTHING George Floyd did either on that day or any day previous that justifies those police officers coldly killing him in public. They were as relaxed as when they are a coffee break while they slowly squeezed the life out of him, for nearly nine minutes. Just a short coffee break. The only thing left was to file a false report. It is not hard to see where the evil resides on that Minneapolis street.

 

[The Yetti]

That article is eye opening. I guess because it's stuff you never see happen you feel it doesn't exist, but to be black and a fly fisherman and accused of stealing it from white people is mind boggling. That and having tires slashed and brake lines cut over that just hurts me.

 

[hank4elk]

Good read.
Could have been my Chief talking to me in 1973. My ignorance was astounding even tho I grew up in a mixed community with mixed friends.

 

[Hem]

Good read.

Thoughts on the killing of George Floyd

Wait before you judge. Take a deep breath. Because you can. In the wake of the murder of George Floyd, I’ve seen countless people on social media expressing their rage — not about George’s death or about the underlying problem of inequality in our country — but about looting and physical damage...

www.hatchmag.com

Thanks for linking this to Hunttalk JLS.
I read this a few days back on a fly fishing forum. More smelling salt for those who continue to deny the race problem in our country.

 

[Mudder]

I've had my car vandalized, I've had some bombastic nutcake try to run me off my own property while hunting. I've had the Cops pull me over and mess with me for no real reason, likely just because they were bored. I grew up in a Police family and listened at gatherings while Cops bragged about messing with citizens just for kicks. I've been beat down by the Cops, did I do something wrong, likely, did I deserve a fractured skull, a handful of missing teeth, and then the charges that were made up to justify the beatdown? How long can you hold a grudge, mine is near fifty years old.

I'd say if the Police did a better job of Policing themselves much of the conflict would disappear. It is likely if they got rid of the ones who really don't have the disposition to be street Cops early, instead of half-past too late, much of the conflict could be avoided. The unwritten policy of protecting their own, IMO just damages everybody in the long term. The Police know who the unstable and just plain mean ones are and cover for them for years. One of my mentors was a drunk and on duty drunk most of the time. He eventually ran over a 12-year-old girl and killed her. He ate his gun. Early intervention might have avoided the situation, much the same with Cops with a chip on their shoulders sooner or later it is likely to blow up and turn into a serious incident.

IMO the days of Policing through fear are past and IMO good riddance.

 

[huronmtns]

GF was not a good person. Career criminal with numerous felonies and multiple convictions and prison terms. His last arrest was for trying to push a counterfeit $20 onto an unsuspecting citizen who was on it. During this guy’s initial contact with the Leo’s he dropped a dime bag of white; obviously racist” powder on to the ground. Oops . His autopsy showed fentanyl, cocaine and mj in his blood. Snap! Yeah this is the guy I’m gonna riot for.

What was the exact autopsy language used to describe the cause of death?

 

[VikingsGuy]

While there can, and should be, debate on how to best fix the situation we are in, there should be no debate that there is a problem. There is ZERO chance a white dentist in Edina (an upper scale suburb 5 miles from where George was killed) is killed this way - even if the dentist was high at the time. There are sadly different rules for non-whites when it comes to interaction with police. It has to stop. Many have denied the problem, too many situations are “he said, she said” or “bang,bang high stress” events where it is easy to blame the circumstances, the difficult job cops have (which they clearly do) or the actions of the accused. But there is no such place to hide with this one. On video, with witnesses, 8 minutes to do the right thing, no imminent threat to the officers, no underlying violent crime to have raised the pressure of the situation - it was simple human disdain and disregard for the value of the life of another person based upon their skin color.

90% of cops are great - they do a tough job under tough circumstances and I appreciate their service - but we have to stop passing the buck on this and work to resolve the other 10%. It needs to be easier to dismiss bad cops - other cops know who they are, but the informal code of silence and aggressive unions have made it too difficult, hopefully this can change.

We also have to find a way to break the cycle of escalation towards “military style policing”. An overly aggressive approach raises the stakes for the cops and the citizens they are supposed to protect and makes accidental shootings inevitable. It’s time to deescalate.

It’s time for white Americans to hear and take seriously the experiences of our non-white fellow citizens. This does not mean we have to agree with every proposed solution but we have to resist the urge to explain away the reality or to return to our couch. I am not saying go out and join the riots, but we need to hold our elected officials and police departments accountable to make significant and sustained improvements - this needs to be raised up the priority list. We have to find a way to engage our economically challenged communities regardless of race - there is no doubt that there is a link between economic hopelessness and violent activity. Jobs solve more problems than a police department armored personnel carrier. This is true in poor white communities, poor black communities and poor Latino communities.

 

[VikingsGuy]

What was the exact autopsy language used to describe the cause of death?

The formal phrase was, “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression.” Meaning the cop’s knee on his neck ultimately caused his heart to stop due to lack of oxygen.

 

[Bigjay73]

Hard to believe this is happening with how much we include minorities in the outdoors and in outdoor media.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I feel there are two distinct issues at play, that just happen to collide. Systemic racism and hatred is alive and well, and must be eliminated. At the same time, our criminal justice system needs serious revamping.

Achieving one of these will be difficult. To do both will be very painful, and won’t come easy I fear.

 

[Bigjay73]

And let's not kid ourselves, every single one of us is prejudiced to some extent. I'd be willing to bet the majority of us live in almost all white neighborhoods, work in almost all white offices, and make sure our kids go to the "right" schools. Blame cops and the govt all you want, we're only lying to ourselves if we claim our hands are clean.

 

[Nameless Range]

While there can, and should be, debate on how to best fix the situation we are in, there should be no debate that there is a problem. There is ZERO chance a white dentist in Edina (an upper scale suburb 5 miles from where George was killed) is killed this way - even if the dentist was on high at the time. There are sadly different rules for non-whites when it comes to interaction with police. It has to stop. Many have denied the problem, too many situations are “he said, she said” or “bang,bang high stress” events where it is easy to blame the circumstances, the difficult job cops have (which they clearly do) or the actions of the accused. But there is no such place to hide with this one. On video, with witnesses, 8 minutes to do the right thing, no imminent threat to the officers, no underlying violent crime to have raised the pressure of the situation - it was simple human disdain and disregard for the value of the life of another person based upon their skin color.

90% of cops are great - they do a tough job under tough circumstances and I appreciate their service - but we have to stop passing the buck on this and work to resolve the other 10%. It needs to be easier to dismiss bad cops - other cops know who they are, but the informal code of silence and aggressive unions have made it too difficult, hopefully this can change.

We also have to find a way to break the cycle of escalation towards “military style policing”. An overly aggressive approach raises the stakes for the cops and the citizens they are supposed to protect and makes accidental shootings inevitable. It’s time to deescalate.

It’s time for white Americans to hear and take seriously the experiences of our non-white fellow citizens. This does not mean we have to agree with every proposed solution but we have to resist the urge to explain away the reality or to return to our couch. I am not saying go out and join the riots, but we need to hold our elected officials and police departments accountable to make significant and sustained improvements - this needs to be raised up the priority list. We have to find a way to engage our economically challenged communities regardless of race - there is no doubt that there is a link between economic hopelessness and violent activity. Jobs solve more problems than a police department armored personnel carrier. This is true in poor white communities, poor black communities and poor Latino communities.

Great comment VikingsGuy.

I wish your last paragraph were enough, but as a country we are now so apoplectic everywhere, and leaderless, that I fear poor decisions, from anywhere.

It's unsettling times.

 

[Europe]

We have to find a way to engage our economically challenged communities regardless of race - there is no doubt that there is a link between economic hopelessness and violent activity. Jobs solve more problems than a police department armored personnel carrier. This is true in poor white communities, poor black communities and poor Latino communities.

very well said. I agree

 

[FI460]

I feel there are two distinct issues at play, that just happens to collide. Systemic racism and hatred is alive and well, and must be eliminated. At the same time, our criminal justice system needs serious revamping.

Achieving one of these will be difficult. To do both will be very painful, and won’t come easy I fear.

Alexandra Natapoff wrote a great book that addresses both of those issues. Often we focus on felony crime and it's easy for people to dismiss a need for reform there as most agree that felonies are bad. But our massive misdemeanor system acts, or perhaps was designed to act, as a system to funnel less fortunate citizens into the criminal justice system.