60 Minutes Wyoming Green Energy Segment

[Keep on]

The American coal miner, roughneck, etc are all going to continue to help power this country for a long time, probably forever until fusion is successful at scale. Renewables can't be the only source of power - no one with a functioning brain is arguing for that.

That isn't "true" you don't "know" that. It's a politically informed opinion.

Didn't say anyone was pushing for an all renewable grid, but some are saying coal must go.
This country can not ignore that we are the Saudi Arabia of coal reserves. We burn it cleaner and more efficiently than almost anywhere else in the world. To continue to ship it off to India and China where it is burnt in poorly regulated plants with much worse emissions is poor energy policy.
At the same time to prop up certain segments of the industry with the lions share of incentives, which are not on their own very profitable while simultaneously regulating other segments out of business, will do nothing more than increase our domestic energy production costs and hamstring our own economy.

 

[BigHornRam]

Our taxes. I don't see anything for me!

An unreliable grid isn't good enough for you?

 

[SAJ-99]

This all sounds wonderful to have such an enlightened and forward thinking economy where energy is cheap and plentiful. They said back in the 1950's that electricity was going to be so cheap and abundant that people didn't need to worry about insulating their homes because of the newly harnessed power of the atom.
Truth is it's been an all of the above energy policy and relatively cheap power compared to many parts of the world that has made this country and economy what it is. Those who think we can just wish that away are, in my opinion, at best misinformed.
I like to dream of the day we can all power our Delorean's on Mr. Fusions, but until then the American coal miner and roughneck will continue to help power this country.

Yeah! free market solutions are great. Let's treat carbon like a pollution and tax those that use it. Make them go into the market and purchase credits while those with solutions that store the carbon can sell those credits. Then let's see how the prices for electricity adjust.

Americans want cheap everything. The same people complaining about renewable tax credits are complaining gasoline is too expensive. We all just enjoy complaining. No one wants a true free-market based solution because they would have to hold their house temp at 50 degrees in winter and 80 in summer to make it affordable.

 

[elkduds]

The most highly subsidized energy source is also by far the most profitable industry. Oil/gas subsidies include public land lease rates of pennies on the dollar compared to private land lease rates. A far richer scam on US taxpayers than grazing leases.

 

[Keep on]

Yeah! free market solutions are great. Let's treat carbon like a pollution and tax those that use it. Make them go into the market and purchase credits while those with solutions that store the carbon can sell those credits. Then let's see how the prices for electricity adjust.

Americans want cheap everything. The same people complaining about renewable tax credits are complaining gasoline is too expensive. We all just enjoy complaining. No one wants a true free-market based solution because they would have to hold their house temp at 50 degrees in winter and 80 in summer to make it affordable.

Carbon credits are the antithesis of a free market solution.
If we continue to make our grid more and more expensive it will be detrimental for all of us.

 

[Westelker - W. Colorado]

If we really want to transition to nuclear, they need to figure out how to build new reactors in this country in less than 15 years time. Vogtle was given financial incentives from the Obama administration in its early days. One of the units has just now come on line, the other one still not functional. In the process Westinghouse went bankrupt, Southern Company lost billions and massive delays and overruns on budget occurred.
Doesn't look like we'll be seeing a large increase in nuclear generation in this country anytime soon. Even the existing single unit stations are going out of business because they are not cost competitive. Man hours and NRC red tape precludes nuclear from being low cost generators.

Maybe we should take France's or Slovakia's lead, cut the red tape and get serious about nuclear power without subsidies. Can our government do that?

 

[Keep on]

Maybe we should take France's or Slovakia's lead, cut the red tape and get serious about nuclear power without subsidies. Can our government do that?

In a word, Nope.

 

[SAJ-99]

Carbon credits are the antithesis of a free market solution.
If we continue to make our grid more and more expensive it will be detrimental for all of us.

Sounds like someone doesn't like free markets. You can't really create a waste byproduct of your money making enterprise and dump it on the world for free. Should be a cost for that.
Let's just agree that all we are really good at is destroying stuff. We will tell people who have to pay astronomical amounts for home insurance because they live by the ocean, or in flood areas, or in high fire risk areas, or farmers that have to worry about crops that they have to just suck it up. The market will fix their problems.

 

[Keep on]

All this actually got me back to thinking about the original question. CO2 capture reduces plant efficiency by about 25%, many coal generators are on the edge of being profitable as it now stands, if you reduce plant efficiency by 1/4, no way there is any money to be made, let alone afford all the capital investment in building the equipment involved and pipeline to transport the captured gas. No one in the generation business is anywhere near profitable with a 25% drop in plant efficiency.
I found this article which I found interesting. Who knew, by some accounts 1/2 of my plants generation is already considered by some metrics to be clean coal, as our large unit is a super critical.

'Clean Coal' Technologies, Carbon Capture & Sequestration - World Nuclear Association

Burning coal without adding to global carbon dioxide levels is a major technological challenge. The greatest challenge is bringing the cost of capture and storage technology down sufficiently for 'clean coal' to compete with nuclear power.

world-nuclear.org

 

[Forkyfinder]

As one other poster mentioned. None of this is about the environment, it is about power and money. I point to one glaring example of this issue...

The BLM office in Rawlins, WY was revamped under some former presidents investment policy. Bush or Obama, does not matter. But when they did the revamp they installed a windmill, it worked great. In fact it works so well that they have to turn it off for over 75% of the month. Under the law they can not keep the Windmill running as it creates to much energy and at a certain point every month they have to shut it off otherwise it exceeds the allowable production and would need to be licensed as a power plant. I am not sure if the rules have changed but anytime we are in Rawlins, early in the month the blades are turning late in the month they are off...

If this was really about the environment then it would be easy and affordable for every building to have its own setup.

Highly dependent on your local power providers rules and/or the PUC that regulates them.

On the note of "why isnt there a windmill everywhere on houses" because of economies of scale (efficiency at higher production size). The same reason there are nat gas lines everywhere but it wouldnt pay to run a generator and charge the grid.

 

[BigHornRam]

The most highly subsidized energy source is also by far the most profitable industry. Oil/gas subsidies include public land lease rates of pennies on the dollar compared to private land lease rates. A far richer scam on US taxpayers than grazing leases.

Leases are low. The royalties are not. Royalties pay for LWCF funding. Wind and solar get a 2.5 cent per kilowatt federal tax credit for the producer.

 

[BigHornRam]

Show some respect. Those Chinese kids do quality work.

Looks like you missed your opportunity to buy cheap Chinese solar panels for your rooftop, SAJ-99. China is having labor participation problems too.

Why Millions of Chinese Young People Are Unemployed - The Journal. - WSJ Podcasts

More than one in five young people in China are jobless. The government blames college graduates, insisting that their expectations have gotten too high. WSJ’s Brian Spegele unpacks why new grads are holding out and what it could mean for China’s economy. Further Reading: -How Bad Is China’s...

www.wsj.com

 

[VikingsGuy]

Getting to expense oil and gas exploration and well development costs as they acrure, is considered a "tax break" by some.

If they are so "trivial" maybe OG would agree to give them up? I am friends with an OG lobbyist and he would knee cap you for suggesting this -- preferential tax treatment it is a top shelf issue for them.

 

[BigHornRam]

Anticipated federal royalty payments of oil and gas leases, from both on shore and off shore federal lands. Those dollars go on the revenue side of the balance sheet.



Meanwhile production tax credits, and investment tax credits for wind and solar on both public land and private will be a large liability to the balance sheet, till this expires in 2032.

"Investors who fund US renewable power projects can significantly lower the federal taxes they’re obliged to pay. The Production Tax Credit has qualified them for as much as US$0.025 in tax breaks per kWh of power that a project produces, while the Investment Tax Credit has permitted them to claim back as much as 30% of the funds they put into a project. Over the last 15 years, these tax credits have helped grow US renewables into major industries: from 2005 to 2020, national wind and solar power production grew nearly 18-fold."

 

[VikingsGuy]

This country can not ignore that we are the Saudi Arabia of coal reserves.

But that makes us the Saudi of mercury, lead, chromium and arsenic contamination -- an honor I would happily forego when there are better and cheaper alternatives (see, gas). This seems a big fuss over the less than 35,000 coal jobs - I understand impactful for those 35,000, but a drop in the bucket of a labor market of 165,000,000. A few (and relatively small) well targeted tariffs directed at offshoring would create far more jobs.

 

[BigHornRam]

If they are so "trivial" maybe OG would agree to give them up? I am friends with an OG lobbyist and he would knee cap you for suggesting this -- preferential tax treatment it is a top shelf issue for them.

What ever dude.

 

[SAJ-99]

Those dollars go on the revenue asset side of the balance sheet.

You are certainly not going to be my accountant.

 

[BigHornRam]

You are certainly not going to be my accountant.

Should have said will go on revenue side.

 

[Westelker - W. Colorado]

In a word, Nope.

I think if our government, both sides, really wanted to do built nuclear reacters I think we have contractors that could do in a reasonable time frame.

 

[BigHornRam]

I think if our government, both sides, really wanted to do built nuclear reacters I think we have contractors that could do in a reasonable time frame.

That has as much chance of happening as you guys in Colorado hunting wolves.