Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[TheGreek]

I don’t think the title company would guarantee anything outside of the boundaries of private property.

I’d have to assume the same thing, but that could be a strong argument against his loss of valuation based on the corner crossing. How do you assign a value or argue a loss in valuation to a right you never had? My guess is that public inholdings on these types of ranches have been valued in purchase price as if the buyer was receiving fee simple but not being insured as such in the title policy.

 

[Oak]

The fact that Magagna and the stock growers have now signed on absolutely infuriates me. They are the biggest bunch of hypocritical whiners in Wyoming. They have no trouble trespassing livestock all over the state and causing untold damages to public lands. What is that worth?
Hell, in Wyoming, cattle can wander freely wherever they want with no recourse to the owner. It is YOUR responsibility to fence them off your property. Fundamental property rights be damned.
I am now more motivated than ever to fund this legal defense.

Magagna cashed one of the first, if not the first, check for a domestic sheep allotment buyout in Wyoming. More recently, he has been working to get the FS to reopen some other sheep allotments that were closed through the same such conservation buyouts.

 

[rwc101]

FYI the Wyoming Judiciary Committee will be discussing trespassing on Tuesday, September 13th. WGFD will be there. https://wyoleg.gov/Committees/2022/J01

 

[WapitiBob]

“For purposes of this subsection "travel through" requires physically touching or driving on the surface of the private property”

 

[bullbugle]

“For purposes of this subsection "travel through" requires physically touching or driving on the surface of the private property”

I was happy to see that language too.

 

[BuzzH]

Latest on corner crossing.

U.S. attorney: Corner-crossing prosecution didn’t violate hunters’ rights - WyoFile

Wyoming’s top federal prosecutor believes that Carbon County justice officials did not violate federal law when they charged Missouri men with criminal trespass at Elk Mountain Ranch.

wyofile.com

 

[Irrelevant]

Latest on corner crossing.

U.S. attorney: Corner-crossing prosecution didn’t violate hunters’ rights - WyoFile

Wyoming’s top federal prosecutor believes that Carbon County justice officials did not violate federal law when they charged Missouri men with criminal trespass at Elk Mountain Ranch.

wyofile.com

I like this Mr. Hasskamp character.

 

[SaskHunter]

Should be interesting to see how many people cross that corner this fall too!

 

[Cornell Cowboy]

Latest on corner crossing.

U.S. attorney: Corner-crossing prosecution didn’t violate hunters’ rights - WyoFile

Wyoming’s top federal prosecutor believes that Carbon County justice officials did not violate federal law when they charged Missouri men with criminal trespass at Elk Mountain Ranch.

wyofile.com

Does this just mean that the US attorney won't prosecute the ranch for violating the Unlawful Inclosures Act? It's not clear from the article how/if this decision may affect the civil case next summer.

 

[BuzzH]

Does this just mean that the US attorney won't prosecute the ranch for violating the Unlawful Inclosures Act? It's not clear from the article how/if this decision may affect the civil case next summer.

Won't impact the civil case. What I'm reading is the US attorney is waiting for the civil case before doing anything.

The other thing is that his complaint brought action to illegally posted public access.

 

[spesh]

Decrease property value is a real problem, but can't blame the hunters. If a judge de ides corner crossing is legal, that's not the fault of hunters

It's a real problem in the sense that they made a bad investment, assuming they had the only access to swaths of public land appears to have been a miscalculation. Miscalculations happen in capitalism. Oopsie Doopsie.

 

[Green Hunter]

Can anyone answer the question of whether the civil case is presenting a tax liability issue? If the value of the land decreased by that much aren't the liable for lack of proper tax valuation? I am sure they didn't inform the county that their land was worth that much.

 

[Dakotakid]

Ag land is taxed at a low rate independent of valuation.
Wyoming is a fractional assessment state. This means that the taxable value is based on a portion of the full value. In Wyoming, this fractional amount is 9.5 percent for agricultural property. To arrive at the assessed value, multiply the total land value per acre times 9.5 percent. The assessed value is then multiplied by the appropriate tax district mill levy to obtain the tax.

 

[Scott85]

Ag land is taxed at a low rate independent of valuation.
Wyoming is a fractional assessment state. This means that the taxable value is based on a portion of the full value. In Wyoming, this fractional amount is 9.5 percent for agricultural property. To arrive at the assessed value, multiply the total land value per acre times 9.5 percent. The assessed value is then multiplied by the appropriate tax district mill levy to obtain the tax.

The county still has the value of the land a lot lower than what the piece of crap is claiming his property is worth.

 

[bts09]

What's interesting to me about the alleged damages ($3-7MM for diminution in value because of the trespass) is that there's a pretty solid legal defense to that. Either there was no trespass, in which case, there's no liability; or there was a trespass (airspace), in which case, there's been no diminution in value because it was a recognized as a trespass, ie, other people can't do it. What the Ranch is really arguing is that the value has decreased because other people now know it's legal to access the public land this way--and that's hogwash. If it's legal, then it's ALWAYS been legal, and there's no diminution claim; if it's illegal, then the ranch's rights have not changed, and the property is worth just as much today as it was yesterday because everyone will know they can't do this (and I would argue it's actually worth more if the Ranch wins because prior to this, it was an "open question" whether this was legal).

 

[seeth07]

What's interesting to me about the alleged damages ($3-7MM for diminution in value because of the trespass) is that there's a pretty solid legal defense to that. Either there was no trespass, in which case, there's no liability; or there was a trespass (airspace), in which case, there's been no diminution in value because it was a recognized as a trespass, ie, other people can't do it. What the Ranch is really arguing is that the value has decreased because other people now know it's legal to access the public land this way--and that's hogwash. If it's legal, then it's ALWAYS been legal, and there's no diminution claim; if it's illegal, then the ranch's rights have not changed, and the property is worth just as much today as it was yesterday because everyone will know they can't do this (and I would argue it's actually worth more if the Ranch wins because prior to this, it was an "open question" whether this was legal).

That is a great point. It seems to me that is why I have heard that other ranches in the area are not happy with this case moving forward. A large ranch in this checkerboard region has nothing to gain from this case right?

 

[Nicoli7153]

Great point! For the owner .... what goes around comes around!

 

[Gerald Martin]

Arguing that you are owed damages for the loss of value based on something you never legally owned seems to be a janky legal argument to me.

 

[Hunter4Life78]

My bet is you are the type of hunter that passes through my place at least 1/2 before and after dark on their way to the public. An honest hunter that is just interested a good hunt. I as a landowner never have to deal with these hunters . I get to deal with the sobs every year. Over the years I have caught dozens of trespassers and found evidence of dozens more. Nealy all the hunters I have caught claim that they thought they were hunting public land. Every one of them was lying. Most honest hunters have no idea of the kind crap landowners put up with during hunting season. Landowners view hunters far differently than hunters view themselves. It is very easy to get a distorted impression of hunters when you mostly have to deal with the dishonest minority and not the honest majority. Don't think for a minute that hunters using public to trespass on adjacent private is not a concern.

1/2 hour before and after what morons. That's legal shooting light in Montana.

 

[Hunter4Life78]

Id just get a trampoline and jump over. Something like this!
View attachment 213898

I have got to be the most childish 48 yr old alive.

Catapult???