Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[Addicting]

A dollar awarded would be laughable and fantastic. Corner cross at the risk of causing 1 dollar in damages due to your intrusion of the airspace? Ok fine, I'll pay that all day...

Your an idiot if you think that is all this case would cost the defendants and the public.

Legal fees
Missed work
Travel to appear
A case history of air space trespass

Imagine
Kids swings arm off the sidewalk grumpy old man now has grounds to sue the kid.


No one wins except Fred if this is set as a precedent.

 

[Addicting]

@Addicting reread this post. Explained a little bit better. I just don't see a ruling in this case that would hurt the public land user other than a verdict that states ZERO damages (hunters win). The reason why is because if no damages occurred and the hunters win the case, the ruling doesn't tell us about the legality of the issue at hand. Its still an open question.

Again wrong

Hunters win means there was no damages and was not illegal as found in the criminal trial. A higher court validation of a lower court ruling means everything.

Otherwise why would we have the need for a Supreme Court?

 

[seeth07]

Your an idiot if you think that is all this case would cost the defendants and the public.

Legal fees
Missed work
Travel to appear
A case history of air space trespass

Imagine
Kids swings arm off the sidewalk grumpy old man now has grounds to sue the kid.


No one wins except Fred if this is set as a precedent.

But do you really think landowner after landowner is going to take 1000's of people to court every year knowing they have to pay their own lawyer fees out of stubbornness just to get $1 out of the suit? No, that's not going to happen.

I still stand by the fact that the only way public land hunters lose is if the ruling is ZERO damages because it won't actually set precedent or tell us anything about legality of corner crossing unless the judge in his ruling specifically states that the reason why ZERO damages occurred is because of the fact that they didn't do anything illegal by crossing the corner. This is a civil case however and all the judge has to look at and determine is if the actions actually caused damage.

 

[seeth07]

I believe there was a trespass case where the awarded damages were $1 wasn't it? But in that case, it was an actual trespass right? Not a corner cross. The ruling however just stated that the trespass didn't actually cause any real damage.

 

[Addicting]

But do you really think landowner after landowner is going to take 1000's of people to court every year knowing they have to pay their own lawyer fees out of stubbornness just to get $1 out of the suit? No, that's not going to happen.

I still stand by the fact that the only way public land hunters lose is if the ruling is ZERO damages because it won't actually set precedent or tell us anything about legality of corner crossing unless the judge in his ruling specifically states that the reason why ZERO damages occurred is because of the fact that they didn't do anything illegal by crossing the corner. This is a civil case however and all the judge has to look at and determine is if the actions actually caused damage.

BTW if you loose you are responsible for the plaintiff’s court cost. It’s not just a dollar…

Your dollar will cost you several thousands.

 

[Slm864]

If my property borders on Lake Superior, or a national park or forest, or pig confinement, neighboring property very definitely affects value. But since no new laws were added here, the public property is the same as it always was and the private owner's exclusivity to it has not changed at all. The land was previously overvalued (as in it was not worth what they thought it was), it has not been devalued at all.

Maybe the landowner should sue Wyoming for excessive taxation and demand return of back taxes. That would be more rational. Good luck with that...

I agree with your first sentence but someone having lakefront property on Lake Superior isn’t keeping me from getting to the lake to fish. The lake isn’t landlocked keeping the public out.
I get your point though on the adjacent property influencing the value but I’m merely meaning the value is inflated due to their opinion that the landlocked parcel is solely theirs because of their access to it.

 

[Nicoli7153]

@seeth07

Elk mountain wins. Hunters pay damages of what he says was a loss.

Every hunter who corner crosses now has to pay whatever the land owner claims as a loss of property value.

This would be a huge win in big land owners favor. Buy a property for way over value. Wait for some poor hunter to stick his arm across the line and sue him for all he is worth. Each new air space violation is a new suit. It is going to be the absolute best way for them to make money on their property. Who cares what it is actually worth.

It one in the same. You can only win or loose a verdict.

But you can win and loose motions up to trial, which there will certainly be in this civil case. Same in a criminal case.

 

[rwc101]

Seems easier to stop funding "Stop the Steal" fraud schemes if he's concerned about his bank account.

 

[Addicting]

But you can win and loose motions up to trial, which there will certainly be in this civil case. Same in a criminal case.

Absolutely, but motions have nothing to do with what he stated as justification for Elk mountain winning the case.

Elk mountain wins even with a zero dollar damage amount, hunters still loose. Can you imagine what Fred’s court costs are they they will have to pay? Not to mention what they have already lost in just being there in court.

 

[Nicoli7153]

Absolutely, but motions have nothing to do with what he stated as justification for Elk mountain winning the case.

Elk mountain wins even with a zero dollar damage amount, hunters still loose. Can you imagine what Fred’s court costs are they they will have to pay? Not to mention what they have already lost in just being there in court.

There can be motions to dismiss part of their arguments that could gut his claims. That was my point

 

[mtmiller]

Loose = Triggered

“Your an idiot” is still one of my favorites as well.

 

[manitou1]

Better have all the o

My bet is you are the type of hunter that passes through my place at least 1/2 before and after dark on their way to the public. An honest hunter that is just interested a good hunt. I as a landowner never have to deal with these hunters . I get to deal with the sobs every year. Over the years I have caught dozens of trespassers and found evidence of dozens more. Nealy all the hunters I have caught claim that they thought they were hunting public land. Every one of them was lying. Most honest hunters have no idea of the kind crap landowners put up with during hunting season. Landowners view hunters far differently than hunters view themselves. It is very easy to get a distorted impression of hunters when you mostly have to deal with the dishonest minority and not the honest majority. Don't think for a minute that hunters using public to trespass on adjacent private is not a concern.

Better have all the public roads removed that are near your place if that's the case. You will sleep better at night.

 

[antlerradar]

Better have all the o

Better have all the public roads removed that are near your place if that's the case. You will sleep better at night.

I think people are misreading what I was trying to say. I have pubic roads running the full length of the place, hundreds of hunters use those roads to access public land. The vast majority are honest and cause me no headaches. Most like I said are through well before daylight. They will never see the unpleasant stuff I have to deal with every year. One of the reason I am on this sight is to interact with quality hunters, If I wasn't it would be easy to get a very jaded view of sportsman when you deal with the slobs too often. Sportsman should never underestimate the damage to landowner/sportsman relations and access caused by the unethical.
Just this evening I was setting on a hill watching deer and elk. I could hear a pickup driving on the County road across the river. I got them in the glasses and could see it was not a local and that they were cruising and looking for wildlife. No issue with that, I do it all the time. They drive out of sight and I forget about them until I hear the shot. I look for them but can not see them. I can tell buy the way the cattle are acting that it is likely they are just out of sight behind a small hill right were the sound of the shot came from. Sure enough, a few minutes later I see them driving out form behind the hill. Maybe they shot at a coyote, or maybe they shot a shot a buck an cut off the head and left the rest. Wouldn't be the first time for ether. Just the same, I called the incident in and with some luck the warden will find out the truth.

 

[Dakotakid]

Generally, in a civil case the trial will have a work flow or organization on how the jury is to decide the case. First as to whether trespass occurred and only if yes then proceed to damages.
Lots of rules on how it all proceeds.

 

[brownbear932008]

I bought a property advertising majestic Mountain View’s.

My neighbors have built houses that are an impediment to the views advertised on the brochure and have taken that value from me.

How much damage can I sue them for? The brochure claimed “ Ten million dollar views.”*

* not an actual statement

Exactly the guy fell for a sells pitch and his issue is with the realtor IMO. Lots of them have been doing this for years out West to lure in customers. Just take a quick look on Zillow and you will see it everyday. They know it's a gray area or has been and take advantage of that to make dollars off the wealthy.
If I owned a realty company today I'd be rethinking this strategy and I'd be very careful on how I worded some of these listings.

 

[Addicting]

Loose = Triggered

“Your an idiot” is still one of my favorites as well.

Tact nor spelling has ever been by strong suit.

 

[Dave30-06]

Thanks to those at WY BHA for setting this up. Pitch in if you have ever whined about corner crossing ambiguity in WY (most of us).

Corner Crossing Legal Fee Fundraiser, organized by Wyoming BHA

This hunting season four hunters, Brad Cape, Phillip Yoemans, John Slowensky and Zac… Wyoming BHA needs your support for Corner Crossing Legal Fee Fundraiser

gofund.me

New here...appreciate the info & link! Just beginning to go through the newbie stuff, i.e., rules, expectations of the group, etc. I am sure there is already a forum in HT to keep us posted on this corner-crossing battle? I will look as soon as I get the chance.
D

 

[rwc101]

New here...appreciate the info & link! Just beginning to go through the newbie stuff, i.e., rules, expectations of the group, etc. I am sure there is already a forum in HT to keep us posted on this corner-crossing battle? I will look as soon as I get the chance.
D

Corner Crossing Defense Fund, Round 2- Civil Case

Hey Fellas, the public land hunters won their criminal case, but now Elk Mountain Ranch is attempting to sue them. Times are getting hard for some of us- but if you can even give a little, please do so. Public land is our land, we should be able to access it. This is worth fighting for...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[KDP250]

I usually hunt area 21 in Wyoming for elk and the people suing those 4 Missouri guys for corner crossing (Iron Bar Holdings LLC) has a pretty big chunk of private right on the west side of the continental divide. I've considered asking for permission to trespass during archery elk season, but I figure if they're suing those guys for $7 million in damages then they may be pretty crappy when it comes to allowing trespassing, even if it's on foot. I'll still reach out but I'm not expecting a positive outcome.

 

[300stw]

hows all the corner crossing going, it was assumed a mass of people would be corner crossing around this ranch this year,,,,