WY HB286

[Hawk Tuah]

Interesting how wildlife management in Idaho, Utah...and now possibly Wyoming has simply reverted to just exterminating lions...

No limit, year-round lion hunting? Wyoming lawmaker looks to end science-based management - WyoFile

A bill that would deregulate killing and mandate trapping throughout the state stems from concerns over struggling mule deer, despite scant evidence that killing cats will help deer populations.

wyofile.com

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Wyoming HB0286 | 2025 | General Session

Summary (2025-01-28) Mountain lion hunting season-changes. [Introduced and Referred to H06 - Travel]

legiscan.com

 

[JM77]

Interesting how wildlife management in Idaho, Utah...and now possibly Wyoming has simply reverted to just exterminating lions...

No limit, year-round lion hunting? Wyoming lawmaker looks to end science-based management - WyoFile

A bill that would deregulate killing and mandate trapping throughout the state stems from concerns over struggling mule deer, despite scant evidence that killing cats will help deer populations.

wyofile.com

In all honesty, this bill would not even begin to control Mountain lion populations in Wyoming.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

In all honesty, this bill would not even begin to control Mountain lion populations in Wyoming.

Houndsmen could virtually exterminate lions in any state with access to hunt them where they live, especially states with snow.

National parks, Indian reservations and private land would be the only thing saving them.

 

[JM77]

Houndsmen could virtually exterminate lions in any state with access to hunt them where they live, especially states with snow.

National parks, Indian reservations and private land would be the only thing saving them.

Are you a houndsman? Houndsman are the reason we have so many lions. They don't want to kill them all. They only take males and usually the mature ones. That leads to higher populations of cats.

I might not agree to everything in that bill, but cats need more control here. They are the #1 mortality on mule deer.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Yes. I am a houndsman.

Unfortunately, because some houndsmen want to be a hero to 15-29 of their best buddies every year and get them all cats, they still need regulation. You only need a few bad apples to kill a ton of lions in a given area because they are so vulnerable in snow.

Winter kill is the by far the number #1 cause of mortality on mule deer, not lions.

 

[JM77]

Winter kill is the by far the number #1 cause of mortality on mule deer, not lions.

You can tell that to all the collared deer found dead from lions near Casper over the course of three studies.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes. I am a houndsman.

Unfortunately, because some houndsmen want to be a hero to 15-29 of their best buddies every year and get them all cats, they still need regulation. You only need a few bad apples to kill a ton of lions in a given area because they are so vulnerable in snow.

Winter kill is the by far the number #1 cause of mortality on mule deer, not lions.

Are you taking 15-29 of your buddies this year to kill lions?

Yeah, neither are 99% of the houndsmen out there.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

You can tell that to all the collared deer found dead from lions near Casper over the course of three studies.

So, you really believe lions kill more deer than winter kill? That's your actual position?

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Are you taking 15-29 of your buddies this year to kill lions?

Yeah, neither are 99% of the houndsmen out there.

No, usually only one lion is killed over my hounds in a given year.

You don't need many idiots in an area to do damage, and there are plenty of idiots. I would call them deer hunters with hounds rather than houndsmen.

99% is inaccurate.

Idaho just eliminated lion quotas statewide, but they kept a season and bag limit. SE Idaho went from about 40 lions being killed a year under the old quota system to about 150 killed the first year the quotas dropped. It has gone down because there aren't many left. In about 13 years of running hounds I've averaged 15-18 catches per season. I've caught one lion this season.

If there aren't feeder areas (national park, Indian reservations, large unhunted private land or inaccessible wilderness) lions are very suspectable to overharvest.

But since it's the lions killing all the deer and not hard winters the deer populations in WY will have a drastic rise once the lions are gone and not dip for the bad winters any more.

 

[nrpate05]

Shouldn't we be leaving quota's, season setting, etc. to the Game and Fish Department?

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Shouldn't we be leaving quota's, season setting, etc. to the Game and Fish Department?

Don't bring logic into this argument. It is rarely tolerated here...

Hunters are only against legislatures setting seasons and quotas until it helps (or is perceived to help) their particular cause. Then they're all for it. Unfortunately, this just empowers legislatures to keep doing it until one day the tables turn and it hurts their own cause...at which point, it is then deemed "bad."

People respect the process unless there is a shortcut that they think will help them.

 

[elks]

So here is my take. Wyoming would be dumb to deregulate lions too far. Allowing lion trapping is fine as long as the lion is still treated as a game species. Meaning that there is a requirement to harvest the meat and there is regulated/limited take. It is vital we still maintain quota system and not allow unlimited take. Now if we need to adjust lion populations down for deer etc. We should do that through the commission and through the Game and Fish.

We should learn from Colorado. The 2 saving arguments that prevented the lion hunting ban were the ideas that 1. Lions were well regulated (arguably the most regulated game species in Colorado). 2. That lion was a game species and wasting the meat is a felony.

Without having those 2 arguments on the hunters side. Colorado could have easily been lost. We are foolish to think that the same will not happen in UT, ID, MT, WY etc. It maybe 5 years or 15, but it is a very real concern.

So thread the needle...

 

[JM77]

So, you really believe lions kill more deer than winter kill? That's your actual position?

I get it, you're one of those guys that swears lions only take a deer every month or so. You don't want more lions killed because you want a track to run everytime you go out. Houndsman who kill only big toms are doing the worst possible thing for lions and for deer.

Yes, around here, lions are the number one reason for deer mortality and the numbers of big cats needs reduced, which is an extremely hard thing to do. With low deer numbers, every doe that dies has a bigger effect on deer populations.

You also don't know the legislative process and who brings these kinds of bills to the legislature.

 

[JM77]

So here is my take. Wyoming would be dumb to deregulate lions too far. Allowing lion trapping is fine as long as the lion is still treated as a game species. Meaning that there is a requirement to harvest the meat and there is regulated/limited take. It is vital we still maintain quota system and not allow unlimited take. Now if we need to adjust lion populations down for deer etc. We should do that through the commission and through the Game and Fish.

We should learn from Colorado. The 2 saving arguments that prevented the lion hunting ban were the ideas that 1. Lions were well regulated (arguably the most regulated game species in Colorado). 2. That lion was a game species and wasting the meat is a felony.

Without having those 2 arguments on the hunters side. Colorado could have easily been lost. We are foolish to think that the same will not happen in UT, ID, MT, WY etc. It maybe 5 years or 15, but it is a very real concern.

So thread the needle...

There are unlimited take areas in Wyoming. My local area has no quota, a year round season and a second license available to anyone. There are as many lions as there has ever been.
I don't agree with everything the bill does, but we have to somehow reduce the lion population. The current management is not doing the job.

 

[El Jason]

Shouldn't we be leaving quota's, season setting, etc. to the Game and Fish Department?

I think this bears repeating.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

You also don't know the legislative process and who brings these kinds of bills to the legislature.

So, I went and watched this great video because I don't know how the legislative process works.

I am now in agreement with you that legislatures are obviously the best people to be setting hunting seasons and quotas rather than game commissioners.

 

[elks]

There are unlimited take areas in Wyoming. My local area has no quota, a year round season and a second license available to anyone. There are as many lions as there has ever been.
I don't agree with everything the bill does, but we have to somehow reduce the lion population. The current management is not doing the job.

Got cha. So how do we incentivize more people to hunt lions while still keeping a well managed game species? Trapping is fine with me... But what will it take to increase hunter interest? I have not targetted lions for while but we tend to have a tag incase we ever cross paths...

 

[BuzzH]

So, I went and watched this great video because I don't know how the legislative process works.

I am now in agreement with you that legislatures are obviously the best people to be setting hunting seasons and quotas rather than game commissioners.

Commissioners can't do anything without the legislature granting them the authority.

The legislature also has the ability strip authority from the Commission as well.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Commissioners can't do anything without the legislature granting them the authority.

The legislature also has the ability strip authority from the Commission as well.

Legislatures have already given game commissioners authority to create seasons and quotas.

You indicated above you approve of this bill where legislatures will directly make radical changes to big game seasons (eliminating them altogether for this species) and big game quotas (eliminating them altogether for this species.)

Just so that we're all clear on this: Is it the official position of BHA that state legislatures should write game seasons and quotas instead of commissioners...or just you?