U.S. Debt Ceiling. 31.4 Trillion!

[antlerradar]

I mean fair but that could mean the ranch sells with zero taxes involved.



My point is that with 5MM in cash in your bank account you can make running cattle a hobby not a business.

No one expects you to be able to pass down any other type of family business no strings attached I'm not sure why a farm should have a carve out.

Family car dealership? Bank? Hotel chain?

I get the fact that folks have nostalgia about this topic, I just don't.

First, you likely can not split the ranch and sell half for half the money.
Second capital gains is going to take close to 20%, Commission and other fees are going to eat up some more.
I am no realtor but I would not be surprised if you pocketed closer to 3 million. Still a nice amount of money. but if you are less than 50 years old that hobby farm is going to eat that money pretty fast. Maybe even faster than you can reach retirement age.
As for the other businesses, The value of all of those businesses is more heavily tied to how much revenue they can generate. If farms and ranches were valued this way inheritance tax would not be near the issue.

 

[DouglasR]

You guys should team up with the guys from the grain line and go solve all these problems you’ve got the answers to!

 

[antlerradar]

Yup, like I said, not about the budget. It's about not creating a permanent princeling class.

Politicians using the tax code to social engineer is a big part of why the current tax code is screwed up.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

First, you likely can not split the ranch and sell half for half the money.

Depending on the area you could probably sell it for more, work with a developer carve it up into little ranchetts.

Second capital gains is going to take close to 20%,

You would only pay capital gains if you held onto it for a while after you inherited it, the basis is established when you acquire the property.

As for the other businesses, The value of all of those businesses is more heavily tied to how much revenue they can generate. If farms and ranches were valued this way inheritance tax would not be near the issue.

Taxes are tied to value, sure a businesses value to potential buyers is how much revenue it can generate. That doesn’t negate the fact that you are giving an incredible amount of value to another generation via property value.

So the King Ranch should be passed down tax free because of ‘heritage’ but the heirs of Modern Pastry should have to pay or sell the business?

 

[Mallardsx2]

Social security is expected to become insolvent in 2033… and there are more millennials than boomers, so I’m banking of the fact that no matter what I’m on my own. Assuming I get nothing, no matter what my preference is for the disabled and survivors to be paid out 100%, then the poor.

It’s triage at this point… secular tithing

I understand your point. I don't really like it, but it does have merit in its own form.

Welcome to socialism...."The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

I have said for years that I wish I could opt out 100% from SS and manage my own money as I see fit.
I'm a bootstrap theory person. Always have been. Always will be.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I understand your point. I don't really like it, but it does have merit in its own form.

Welcome to socialism...."The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

I have said for years that I wish I could opt out 100% from SS and manage my own money as I see fit.
I'm a bootstrap theory person. Always have been. Always will be.

The problem with socialism, pure capitalism, or any rigid ideology is in the practical application to society as it has evolved in whatever nation you consider.

As a Veteran who spent three decades wearing the US Army uniform, I am dependent on the "socialism" of VA benefits and SS, as well as the savings and investments I have accumulated in order to live a comfortable life. Perhaps if avoiding military service and concentrating on building wealth, as perhaps you have, I might also embrace the "bootstrap theory" of independence from this "socialism" you criticize.

BTW, right wing bashing of this nation's "socialism" reflects an ideology that ignores historical evolvement and reality ... and seems to dismiss the Golden Rule.

 

[TOGIE]

@MTGomer @Bambistew
Where I’m from we call this taco salad.
Non alcoholic stela.
23mi bike ride.
1.25 acres of grass.
5 arrows @40.

 

[Mallardsx2]

The problem with socialism, pure capitalism, or any rigid ideology is in the practical application to society as it has evolved in whatever nation you consider.

As a Veteran who spent three decades wearing the US Army uniform, I am dependent on the "socialism" of VA benefits and SS, as well as the savings and investments I have accumulated in order to live a comfortable life. Perhaps if avoiding military service and concentrating on building wealth, as perhaps you have, I might also embrace the "bootstrap theory" of independence from this "socialism" you criticize.

BTW, right wing bashing of this nation's "socialism" reflects an ideology that ignores historical evolvement and reality ... and seems to dismiss the Golden Rule.

Seems to me that you paid into the system by spending 3 decades in the US army. Thank you for your service and you deserve the benefits that you are receiving.

Point of fact, you are right. I did not serve. And I did "Avoid military service and concentrate on building wealth". If that's how you want to put it, feel free, but that feels like a bit of a low blow...I will let you have that one.

Once again, thank you for your service.

 

[Straight Arrow]

feels like a bit of a low blow.

I apologize, as that was not the intent. My intent was to clarify "socialism" according to what I know.

In fact, I admire and highly respect what you have obviously accomplished.
The lives of most folks do not put them on the path of engaging in military service, but that is not a discredit to them. By your posts, opinions, and well expressed welcome knowledge, I am confident that you have contributed to your community and nation in other ways.

Thank-you.

 

[Sytes]

Regardless the service one provided/not provided, past relative's lost from our families due to our service, our service to our country via public servant or a tax payer, or whatnot, "Socialism", IMO, is far from the U.S. economic structure - in it's "rigid" form.
Want to see a country much more close to a Socialistic structures? Move to Canada. There's a reason Canadians (with $) travel to the U.S. for medical, Roads/Highways are patchwork...

Personally, I appreciate American economics - AKA "Mixed Economy". A mix of both. I value regulation and independent strides within the pursuit of financial happiness.

Outside that, our nations debt to income is - frustrating. Taking into account the longevity of senator seats, one would think our nation's longevity would be more valued. Still, I believe this is a reason we do not hold term limits for Congress. If they were short lived, I believe our country would have sunk long ago.

 

[SAJ-99]

I understand your point. I don't really like it, but it does have merit in its own form.

Welcome to socialism...."The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

I have said for years that I wish I could opt out 100% from SS and manage my own money as I see fit.
I'm a bootstrap theory person. Always have been. Always will be.

I suggested a few pages ago we might have to revise GW's idea of investing, or allowing people to invest, those SS funds in equities, simply because the return on treasuries is too low to match for inflation. There are a few problems with the "opt-out"/"bootstrap" idea that was presented then.
1) people prefer immediate gratification to potential delayed gratification,
2) People, on the whole, generally suck at managing money
3) It transfers risk management from the Government (which would probably hire professionals and can control money supply by printing money in a pinch) to the individual (see #2).
4) equity valuations would probably skyrocket, making them more volatile.
5) if the equities fund declined 40% (for example) the government would still be expected to pay the bills somehow, because you know people.

The "bootstrapping" idea is great in principle, but it typically comes from someone who succeeded and figures everyone can and should do it the same way. It is rare, like unicorn-rare, to look at someone's past path and see where they didn't benefit from a government program somewhere. Finding the balance between what is an incentive and what is a pure gift is the key.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Circling back to the true topic at hand, I feel that if we are 31.4 trillion deep in debt, I just don't see how going deeper in debt is a viable option for ANY American citizen.

Interest payments, to me, are the enemy, unless its money coming back at you and into your account.

Then again, this is coming from a guy who hasn't had a car payment in 5 years or credit card balance in 15 years.

 

[Straight Arrow]

this is coming from a guy who hasn't had a car payment in 5 years or credit card balance in 15 years.

That is a really good thing. My wife and I share that distinction, as well as owning properties with no mortgage debt, but at least in part due to benefits aforementioned.
You and we should be pleased and take pride in accomplishing that debt-free status. However, the reality is that our situations are an anomaly, as most folks have much too much debt owed for auto loans, credit card purchases, and mortgages. The difficulty in acquiring wealth to maintain a comfortable life in retirement seems to be increasingly difficult for many.

 

[Mallardsx2]

That is a really good thing. My wife and I share that distinction, as well as owning properties with no mortgage debt, but at least in part due to benefits aforementioned.
You and we should be pleased and take pride in accomplishing that debt-free status. However, the reality is that our situations are an anomaly, as most folks have much too much debt owed for auto loans, credit card purchases, and mortgages. The difficulty in acquiring wealth to maintain a comfortable life in retirement seems to be increasingly difficult for many.

America has a spending problem. Federal Govt, private citizens, local govt, ect ect...

The amount of people I see in my home state of GA that own new campers, new trucks, side by sides, and boats but can't hardly afford to feed or cloth their kids is astonishing. It truly baffles me. These people must be in debt up to their eyelids and they simple just don't care. "Will you finance that bass boat for 120 months?" "Sure!"

The govt is taking lessons from the citizens. Or the citizens are taking lessons from the govt. Either way it's not good. Mongoose/snake kind of thing....

 

[DouglasR]

America has a spending problem. Federal Govt, private citizens, local govt, ect ect...

The amount of people I see in my home state of GA that own new campers, new trucks, side by sides, and boats but can't hardly afford to feed or cloth their kids is astonishing. It truly baffles me. These people must be in debt up to their eyelids and they simple just don't care. "Will you finance that bass boat for 120 months?" "Sure!"

The govt is taking lessons from the citizens. Or the citizens are taking lessons from the govt. Either way it's not good. Mongoose/snake kind of thing....

Jealousy in the air tonight I can tell.
Maybe these peoples parents paid for their school.
You can buy a lot of braaaap for 150k.

 

[DouglasR]

View attachment 276074 View attachment 276075

Those are IOU’s, Toge.
The original crypto currency.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Jealousy in the air tonight I can tell.
Maybe these peoples parents paid for their school.
You can buy a lot of braaaap for 150k.

Jealous, absolutely not.

Concerned that they will default on these loans and cause an even bigger problem for the rest of us who are financially responsible, absolutely. lol

 

[more_cowbell]

These people must be in debt up to their eyelids and they simple just don't care. "Will you finance that bass boat for 120 months?" "Sure!"

Reminds me of an RV commercial I saw on TV. Advertised monthly payments were low, but the fine print said based on 120 month term.

 

[more_cowbell]

Maybe these peoples parents paid for their school.

Or their student loan PMTs have been on hold for a few years

 

[SAJ-99]

America has a spending problem. Federal Govt, private citizens, local govt, ect ect...

Agree to some extent, but remember that the spending results in GDP. You cut spending, you cut GDP. It's a tradeoff. You can't have a cut in spending and magically create GDP growth (some politicians like to push this fantasy).

Concerned that they will default on these loans and cause an even bigger problem for the rest of us who are financially responsible, absolutely. lol

The American system is set up for people to take risks and not have default/bankruptcy ruin them. It has worked well for almost 250yrs.