Stand for the Anthem

onpoint

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I hope Greenhorn shoots 367 bull or psinclair a 191 muley soon so the faithful post 116 replies about something at least related to hunting. This national anthem rant is really boring.
Any posts regarding actual public land hunter/hunting issues have little/no chance of getting even 18% of the above 100+ replies or such a robust discussion.
Disclaimer:
I actually had a badge for eight years, have many LEO friends, and a family member who is a Montana LEO - don't waste anyone's time on whining about my "anti-law enforcement" comments....
Hell, maybe the socks are merino wool - a popular item around here...........
 

Sytes

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*Onpoint, I didn't realize the "Sports" section related to hunting - only. Well hell... There goes all the threads within this section...
 

mtmuley

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I hope Greenhorn shoots 367 bull or psinclair a 191 muley soon so the faithful post 116 replies about something at least related to hunting. This national anthem rant is really boring.
Any posts regarding actual public land hunter/hunting issues have little/no chance of getting even 18% of the above 100+ replies or such a robust discussion.
Disclaimer:
I actually had a badge for eight years, have many LEO friends, and a family member who is a Montana LEO - don't waste anyone's time on whining about my "anti-law enforcement" comments....
Hell, maybe the socks are merino wool - a popular item around here...........
It's easy onpointer, click on the hunting stuff. mtmuley
 

onpoint

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I did, I went to a website called "Hunt Talk":rolleyes: Claiming this thing has something to do with sports is hilarious.......
I admit it is rude - what I did - won't happen again in this thread.
Carry on.
I'll be hunting USFS for Blue grouse this weekend:hump:
 

mtmuley

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Then I guess Randy needs to shitcan the sports forum. Up to you and him I guess. Lots of threads on lots of forums get derailed around here. Put this one on ignore and move on. Good luck on your grouse hunt. I might shoot some too. In the head with a .22LR. Dammit, is that ethical? mtmuley
 
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onpoint

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Then I guess Randy needs to shitcan the sports forum. Up to you and him I guess. Lots of threads on lots of forums get derailed around here. Put this one on ignore and move on. Good luck on your grouse hunt. I might shoot some too. In the head with a .22LR. Dammit, is that ethical? mtmuley
I lied - one last question:

If the premise and/or intent of the thread is challenged/disagreed [with] within the thread - that is considered derailment?
 

mtmuley

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I lied - one last question:

If the premise and/or intent of the thread is challenged/disagreed [with] within the thread - that is considered derailment?
Well.... No I suppose. BUT, you are looking for hunting content in the sports arena. Why? mtmuley
 

kotikant

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To me, all this is kind of funny business because, you know what? If you find your rear in a sling, maybe someone is trying to break into your home or something when your family happens to be there, who are you going to be looking for? Yep, that person in blue.

Now ask yourself, if those who are in blue feel as if their service is not valued because of things such as we see being expressed, will they be more likely, or less likely, to answer that call during which they might get shot at?

There's a fine line here folks. This is no joke. Years ago I got recruited twice by friends who were cops and this is almost exactly what went through my mind: "Am I willing to do this, be out in the street and have people possibly taking shots at me?"

In my opinion, it takes a special person to be ready and willing do the job and God help us if those that do ever get the notion in their heads we're not worth it.
 

tjones

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I suspect, and I could be wrong, onpoint feels sorry for this horse that despite numerous times to revive him he continues to get beat.To. Death.
 

HONEYBADGER

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While I certainly don't condone his choice of socks, let's not be disingenuous here. There are more than a few within the ranks of law enforcement nationwide who fully embody the image on those socks. Law enforcement is not immune to dishonesty, corruption, and abuse. Let's not pretend it is. Doing so is far more insulting to those who do strive to uphold their oath than any image on a pair of socks.

The whole problem is statistics dont support their allegations. Sure there are bad cops, they are a cross section of society, there are bad people in society so there will be bad cops. Guess what there are bad doctors, bad priests, bad mechanics, bad judges, bad lawyers etc. People are not perfect, never will be.

Kaepernick grew up in a mixed family in a nice neighborhood and was never exposed to any of what he is supposedly trying to fight against. Fact is his career was headed downhill, he was dating a radical activist female who influenced his thinking, and once the genie was out of the bottle it cant be put back in. He has to go all in now.

The cause they are championing is a farce. People get abused by bad cops, yes it happens. It is not an epidemic, is not getting worse, and does not impact one race more than another. Kaepernick is nothing but a liar who cherry picks cases inflamed by the everyday outraged media no different than anti-immigration people cherry pick cases of illegals committing crimes and try to generate outrage. Kaepernick and his movement are a fraud, the data shows so, but it all gets lost in the constant what are we outraged about today America news cycle.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/what-numbers-say-police-use-force-11472.html
 

Yellowstoner

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The whole problem is statistics dont support their allegations. Sure there are bad cops, they are a cross section of society, there are bad people in society so there will be bad cops. Guess what there are bad doctors, bad priests, bad mechanics, bad judges, bad lawyers etc. People are not perfect, never will be.

Kaepernick grew up in a mixed family in a nice neighborhood and was never exposed to any of what he is supposedly trying to fight against. Fact is his career was headed downhill, he was dating a radical activist female who influenced his thinking, and once the genie was out of the bottle it cant be put back in. He has to go all in now.

The cause they are championing is a farce. People get abused by bad cops, yes it happens. It is not an epidemic, is not getting worse, and does not impact one race more than another. Kaepernick is nothing but a liar who cherry picks cases inflamed by the everyday outraged media no different than anti-immigration people cherry pick cases of illegals committing crimes and try to generate outrage. Kaepernick and his movement are a fraud, the data shows so, but it all gets lost in the constant what are we outraged about today America news cycle.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/what-numbers-say-police-use-force-11472.html
Honeybadger - if you think white cops don't profile black teens disproportionately then it confirms why these players are kneeling in the first place. All of you arguing against them kneeling are playing into their hand. Like it or not, we can't deny that black people have been targeted by racism that is still prevalent in our society. It's got us (and the rest of our country) talking about it, so yes, I think it was a success.

To claim his career was headed downhill is ludicrous. He was on his way to a $100m contract, and chose to stand up for marginalized people that he related with. When JJ Watt does the same thing for white folks it's praised. We all see the world through our own lens. I hope you all speaking out against kneeling players can imagine being a black man in our society, and what that would entail. Honeybadger, the article you linked shows that black people's violent interactions with LEOs are about a third of the total of violent interactions. Blacks make up about 12% of our population. So you're 2.5x more likely to be beaten by a cop if you're black than if you are white. The numbers speak for themselves.
 

JLS

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Just for you Tim

Don't worry, I'm going grouse hunting in a few days :)

Sometimes we have to accept the catalysts for change aren't always pretty. This is a great article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/malcolm-jenkins-the-new-face-of-nfl-player-protests-says-were-really-just-at-the-beginning/2018/09/05/4cad766a-b107-11e8-9a6a-565d92a3585d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.366ae545bf18[

PHILADELPHIA — About midway through the national anthem before the Philadelphia Eagles’ final preseason game, the locker room opens and out walks the team’s strong safety: eyes forward, expression blank. Malcolm Jenkins’s face is familiar, but even in the city that celebrated its first Super Bowl championship with a parade seven months ago, it is not famous. Jenkins wore dark aviators to the parade that covered his brown eyes, an Eagles beanie that concealed his thick eyebrows and a smile that was framed by a thick beard with a few gray strands.

But a new season is upon Philadelphia and the NFL, and Jenkins will once again play a leading role. For a third consecutive autumn, player protests are expected to cast a shadow over the action on the field, although for the first time neither of the movement’s founders — two years ago, former San Francisco 49ers teammates Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid began kneeling during the national anthem to bring attention to police brutality toward African Americans — is in the league to participate.

The league office and franchise owners will again try to shift attention away from the sidelines and back to the field as television ratings slip, the audience grows impatient and President Trump lands body shots against a league that once looked impenetrable. Around the time they find a solution for the issue, Jenkins says, it’ll be time for players to find an entirely new way to protest. “Me personally, I really want to get this conversation to move away from the anthem,” he says. “I think it has served its purpose.”

The statement is not a declaration of his intentions — he remained noncommittal on how he would approach the anthem this year, as the league’s policy remains on hold while owners and players’ union reps hold discussions — but it provides a window into Jenkins’s analytical mind, the one with which the league must now contend.

Jenkins is a 30-year-old captain and two-time Pro Bowl honoree for the defending Super Bowl champion, and the nerve center of a franchise whose locker room is as socially conscious as it is talented. He is motivated and creative when it comes to social issues, unafraid to deploy vulnerability and even silence — in June he staged a wordless news conference as he held a sign that read “YOU AREN’T LISTENING” — against what he considers the status quo.

So as the league begins a third season of the protests and players have — after two years of disagreement and clumsiness — started to find their collective voice, Jenkins brings a new and challenging weapon to the discussion: credibility. Kaepernick, a former quarterback who once started in the Super Bowl, gave rise to the protest movement but has been almost reclusive over the past 18 months, appearing in public only a few times before being revealed this week as a centerpiece of a new Nike ad campaign.

Reid, with a willing voice and thoughtful demeanor, lacked the on-field bona fides — he was injured during much of last season and played for a team that hasn’t finished with a winning record since 2013 — and deferred too often to the behind-the-scenes wishes of Kaepernick, socially active players now say.

“They weren’t really organized and communicating with nobody,” says Josh Norman, a Washington Redskins cornerback who is involved with a group of mostly black NFL players that calls itself the Players Coalition. “[Jenkins] was one of those who had a better plan than what was going on. He had got the guys and officials to work with him on so many things, and that’s what we’re going with.”
Jenkins is a two-time Super Bowl champion still in the prime of his career. He prefers dialogue to silence, planning over kismet, compromise — and this hasn’t exactly brought Jenkins and Kaepernick closer — over endless conflict.

“He knows who he is and where he’s going,” Norman says of Jenkins.
Before the preseason game in Philadelphia, Jenkins is the last player to leave the locker room, and as the anthem is performed, he stops near a tunnel that leads to the field. As two security officials stand behind him with right hands over their hearts, Jenkins’s arms dangle and his eyes look forward.
“We’re really just at the beginning,” he will suggest of a movement he now leads, and as the singer finishes the anthem and applause fills the air, Jenkins heads into the tunnel and begins jogging forward.

Early lessons

Years ago they would load up the family’s Denali SUV with luggage and kids, and begin the trek from New Jersey to Virginia. Lee Jenkins saw vacations as a chance to expose his kids to things he found culturally important, and if the youngsters were excited about the amusement park near Williamsburg, Va., their dad couldn’t wait for Carter’s Grove and the plantation’s preserved slave quarters.

“Where we started and where things are,” Lee Jenkins now says was the theme of at least three of his family trips. “And how much more we had to do.” Sometimes the kids argued, and that was fun for Lee Jenkins, too. He was the driver on those trips, and when someone played The Notorious B.I.G., he’d talk over the song and wife Gwendolyn’s eye rolls, explaining how he didn’t understand hip-hop and that Miles Davis and Thelonious Monk were real musicians.

The point, the 57-year-old software systems engineer now says, was not just to banter but also to teach his children that if they disagreed with something, they should say so.
Malcolm Jenkins preferred actions, even then. He didn’t like the empty promises of college football recruiting, so he avoided most of it. Ohio State asked him to stop by and run drills when he was visiting an aunt in Columbus, and after he blew the coaches away, he committed to the Buckeyes almost immediately, rather than wait and collect more scholarship offers.

On one of those trips to Virginia, Lee Jenkins regaled his family of the cultural significance of pork and collard greens, of the oppression he saw as a legacy of slavery, of the men and women who had carved their names into history by speaking out while others were silent.
Muhammad Ali spoke, Rosa Parks sat, John Carlos and Tommie Smith raised a fist, Lee Jenkins would explain. Occasionally he would glance in the mirror to see Malcolm staring through the window or dozing, and Lee couldn’t help but wonder if the young man was even listening.

Heeding calls to action

Two summers ago, Malcolm Jenkins noticed a trend in the news and names that would change his life: Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony. Sterling and Castile had become symbols of a bloody summer, both shot to death by police officers in July 2016. James and Anthony were NBA stars who, at the annual ESPY awards that month, issued a challenge for anyone with a platform.

“Let’s use this moment as a call to action for all professional athletes to educate ourselves,” James would tell the audience. “Speak up. Use our influence. And renounce all violence.”
Something inside Jenkins changed. He read about Ali and Martin Luther King and the Black Panthers, and the tumult of the 1960s reminded him of the present.
He paid attention when, that August, Kaepernick sat during the national anthem before an ex-Army Green Beret convinced him to take a knee. A decade earlier, Jenkins had found stardom and purpose at Ohio State, and if he had once tuned out his father’s impromptu calls to action, he embraced them in Columbus. He volunteered with at-risk kids, was the chaplain and stepmaster of his fraternity, dabbled in student politics and even surprised his dad with a playlist devoted to Thelonious Monk.

But it wasn’t until two years ago that Jenkins discovered his calling, and before the 2016 season he gathered a few teammates for a meeting with Philadelphia police to debate protocol and perspective. As the United States and its favorite sports league were coming to grips with Kaepernick — some viewed him as a symbol in the mold of Ali, while others saw him as a spoiled millionaire — Jenkins and two teammates stood at midfield before an Eagles game and raised their fists.

He tuned out boos from his own team’s fans and scrolled past angry tweets. He kept talking, or more precisely, kept listening — to police, to politicians, to family members, 38 of whom have served in the military, according to his father.
As Kaepernick opted out of his 49ers contract and essentially went silent, Jenkins kept working. He and Anquan Boldin, the former NFL wide receiver, founded the Players Coalition. He wrote an op-ed for The Washington Post. Jenkins and two teammates met with lawmakers to discuss criminal justice reform and to draft the Sentencing and Reform and Corrections Act of 2017. He championed a bill that would seal the criminal records of nonviolent offenders after 10 years, held forums that featured candidates for various cities’ district attorneys, considered unusual ways to capture the public’s attention.
“I do see that opportunity right now, at this point in history, where that next — or not that next leader, but those new leaders can come to the forefront,” says Jenkins, insisting that, for now, he has no political ambitions.
 

JLS

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continued....
He watched as the Players Coalition fractured and nearly crumbled, leading to a falling out with Kaepernick and Reid. Jenkins and Boldin were willing to work with the NFL and potentially end protests after the league pledged $89 million to charitable causes aimed at black Americans. Kaepernick, Norman says, simply refused to communicate when the coalition needed strong leadership most.
“When he took a knee, everybody was in shock and everything, but when the bullets start flying, I was trying to figure out where he was at. He was ducking,” Norman says of Kaepernick. “When you’re in the line of fire and the guys that are over here are trying to have a conversation to move stuff forward, he didn’t want to have that conversation.”
Jenkins suggests the Coalition is “firing on all cylinders” but that he hasn’t spoken with Kaepernick or Reid in nearly a year, saying he has reached out but has received no response.
“I’ve always kept my lines open,” Jenkins says, refusing to elaborate.
He has paid attention, however, as the founders of the NFL protest movement have — for debatable reasons — found themselves out of the league. He has followed as Kaepernick and Reid filed collusion grievances against the NFL, and listened as Trump called for protesting players to be “fired” or deported.
“I’m not worried about the backlash,” he says. “What we’re doing is too important.”
But back home in New Jersey, Jenkins’s parents do worry. Lee Jenkins wonders if his son needs a bodyguard. A while back he stopped asking his son if he receives death threats. He tries not to think about what happened to some of the figures he once told his son about.
Whether he realized it or not, Lee Jenkins was conditioning Malcolm back then.
“We can’t live in fear,” Lee Jenkins says. “He understands what needs to be done, and he understands the risk. He doesn’t have to be afraid to speak out. He’s not afraid.”

Overcoming his fears

But here’s the thing: Malcolm Jenkins is afraid. Sometimes he has trouble sleeping.
Back when he was a teenager, Jenkins asked a tattoo artist to scrawl “Fear No Man” on his left shoulder. It had little symbolism at the time, he says, but it does now. Indeed Jenkins is not afraid of his enemies, no matter their anger or their megaphone. His dread comes from within.
“My only fear; it’s the biggest fear I have in everything that I do: failing,” he says. “And not for failing’s sake or my own sake, but for other people.”
As a movement turns its eyes toward Jenkins, and with it a league and perhaps the Oval Office, he is all too aware of the stakes. A blown assignment might lead to more than a touchdown or even an Eagles loss. It could undermine his credibility, as it occasionally did with Reid, as a leader. A poorly chosen word or maladroit display, as when Kaepernick wore socks with cartoon pigs dressed as police officers and a T-shirt featuring Fidel Castro, could grant critics an opening.
“Those are things that keep me up,” Jenkins says, “to make sure that I’m doing everything I can to put my best effort forward and do what I think is right.”
Jenkins is a most thoughtful tactician, perhaps the voice players have been missing, but even the most gifted chess players make mistakes. Relying only on instinct, he cannot help but consider those he might let down.
“Fear, I think, is one of the things that hold back a lot of the people in my position,” he says. “Whether it’s fear of not being accepted, fear of losing endorsements, fear of the threats that will ultimately come.”
He shakes his head. He is uncertain what awaits in the coming months, on the field and off, but he believes he can overpower his fears and carry the movement forward. He believes he is ready.
“It is important for players in our position, especially African American members of society who have access to all this influence and capital, to fight against the powers that be,” he says. “Because us doing that symbolically also encourages everyday Americans to get involved. Because people look up to us for more than just football. If we’re fighting back, they’ll fight back.”

“Fear, I think, is one of the things that hold back a lot of the people in my position,” Jenkins says. “Whether it’s fear of not being accepted, fear of losing endorsements, fear of the threats that will ultimately come.”
 

sbhooper

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Nonsense bs like this is why I rarely post in open forum anymore. Have you left-wing loonies lost your friggn minds?! Anybody that thinks disrespecting the anthem and all of the people that have stepped up and fought for it is fine, then maybe Venezuela is calling. I don't want to hear all the retarded crap about Trump causing this, when BO nearly destroyed this country. Equality was the best ever in this country until that communist fool took over and turned this country against itself.

Do they have the right to be stupid and kneel for the anthem-yes. Is it the right thing to do-no. Are there injustices-yes. There always have been and always will be. Everybody is going to feel slighted at some point. NONE of it is worth dividing this country over and that is all this bs is doing. These ass clowns are being paid millions to play a friggn kid's game and they don't even have enough decency to stand for the country that put them in the position to make millions. They are a total disgrace and are anti-American, spoiled pos.
 

JLS

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This isn’t about Trump, even though he’s done his best time make it about him. It’s about people trying to affect societal change. It’s kind of like making sausage, it’s not always pretty.
 
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