Stand for the Anthem

[Schaaf]

Charles, you left off the end of that quote. “Out. He’s fired. He’s fired!”

 

[Tradewind]

Another thread having nothing to do with hunting. Not that it matters, but I will always stand for the anthem and would never use that as a way to make my message.

That said, for a group of people so concerned about infringement of the 2nd Amendment, as we should be, I am shaking my head at some of the responses here that advocate for/support infringement of the 1st Amendment.

My left of center friends come unglued when a Chuck Schumer statement incites me to send more money to 2A causes. Given the level of ignorant, bigotted, anti-American, anti-Freedom policies/statements coming out of the White House, it looks like a good time to send more money to 1A advocates.

Carry on....I'm sure this thread will solve a lot of problems and change a lot of minds.

Exactly why I refrained from reading the thread (til I got bored). It won' change anything. But it is interesting to see where everyone stands on the issue.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Exactly why I refrained from reading the thread (til I got bored). It won' change anything. But it is interesting to see where everyone stands on the issue.

I agree that name calling and yelling rarely solve anything, but I do believe intelligent discussions (as this one has largely been) that result in a number of different view points being shared, do begin to move a discussion/thinking forward. In any one day/week/month/year little changes, but over several years or longer there has been an amazing amount of social/legal/political change/progress. And it starts with hearing thoughtful perspectives that are new to us or to which we initially disagree but continue to hear.

 

[Tradewind]

I agree that name calling and yelling rarely solve anything, but I do believe intelligent discussions (as this one has largely been) that result in a number of different view points being shared, do begin to move a discussion/thinking forward. In any one day/week/month/year little changes, but over several years or longer there has been an amazing amount of social/legal/political change/progress. And it starts with hearing thoughtful perspectives that are new to us or to which we initially disagree but continue to hear.

What has come of it, is the anomaly of Fin's forum that teaches - or at least enforces - a reasonable degree of civility not found on any other forum.
Up yours

 

[VikingsGuy]

What has come of it, is the anomaly of Fin's forum that teaches - or at least enforces - a reasonable degree of civility not found on any other forum.
Up yours

Agreed -- and 'yo momma back at ya.

 

[Sytes]

Charles, you left off the end of that quote. “Out. He’s fired. He’s fired!”

Justin, I had no intent to leave anything off... It is what was quoted within the article from, The Hill (linked below) Why it was not included... I do not know though it was not intentional on my part to omit.

I do not see a change taking into account what you omitted related to the quoted portion, "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners...." He is not directing an NFL player to be fired.

Edit - to share the quoted portion: What is most amazing... I heard only pride for the flag and disdain for Kaepernick's actions by my liberal friends back mid 2016 - however the dynamics changed when Trump made his comment.

[video=youtube_share;GhPWVFHqm7s]https://youtu.be/GhPWVFHqm7s[/video]

 

[Schaaf]

The dynamics changed because POTUS is continually using this issue to divide the American people and energize his base. Mike Pence’s trip to Indianapolis last year was no different.

 

[VikingsGuy]

The subsequent shared difference between an employer (widget) and government.

Yup - that why I continued with that example.

Had he signed an Executive Order that directed X team to terminate the employment of a player then that would be ludicrous and I would imagine it would violate some law... What that would be, maybe others would know as the First Amendment applies to the Legislative Branch, "Congress shall make no law..." Has SCOTUS ruled "Congress" as Government in general to cover all?

No good binding SCOTUS answer to this. For many years folks have just acted as if "congress" means "government" without much commentary, but recently some academics have been poking around this question. I think the reason that this has remained a dormant issue for 200+ years is likely because most scenarios that lead to 1st amendment concerns related to the executive branch come from the executive branch executing on congressional laws, which themselves are clearly constrained by the 1st amendment.

Generally the current legal view is that technically 1st amend does not apply to POTUS, but doesn't really matter because POTUS has very limited defined powers. As mentioned before, most of what the POTUS and executive branch do is to act upon congressional laws, which, since congress cannot abridge free speech they can not authorize the president to abridge free speech via statute. The three other big POTUS constitutional roles are commander in chief, where courts have given POTUS great deference for decades, including the ability to limit free speech that creates military risk; appointment power, which typically doesn't have a big 1st amendment angle; and treaty powers, but since those require congressional consent they would fall back to the congressional limitation to constrain those.

 

[greatwhitebuffalo]

This issue was final reason for me to stop watching the NFL.

 

[VikingsGuy]

This issue was final reason for me to stop watching the NFL.

That's your choice, but I would guess every company you buy a product from that has more than 500 employees has at least a few who have now refused to stand at their local event too, you just don't know about it. So your boycotting has about as much effect as their kneeling - you both have the right to do so, but in my view neither are very effective tools.

 

[greatwhitebuffalo]

That's your choice, but I would guess every company you buy a product from that has more than 500 employees has at least a few who have now refused to stand at their local event too, you just don't know about it. So your boycotting has about as much effect as their kneeling - you both have the right to do so, but in my view neither are very effective tools.

Thanks for reminding me that this was my choice.

 

[mtmuley]

This issue was final reason for me to stop watching the NFL.

What were the others? mtmuley

 

[greatwhitebuffalo]

What were the others? mtmuley

Lawsuits/fines, conduct of the players, other rules, and a lot of other BS; like the bickering on this thread.

 

[Sytes]

This issue was final reason for me to stop watching the NFL.

It is the reason I am now a Jerry Jones, Cowboy fan. Up until this point I referred to them as the Cowgirls in the usual rowdy friendly "The League" type fun banter... Now? Jones long time vocal pride in America and support of our law enforcement mothers and fathers, sisters and sons who choose to place boots between our law abiding citizens and the evil that lurks... I am now a Cowboys fan. Prior I'd been a 49er fan... yep. Montana, Rice - Young, Taylor & Rice - Smith & Gore... etc.

Meh, good discussion. Least the portion that did not resort to personal attacks.

 

[mtmuley]

Lawsuits/fines, conduct of the players, other rules, and a lot of other BS; like the bickering on this thread.

Hmmmm…. mtmuley

 

[tjones]

Jerry Jones-the voice of reason. Who would have thunk.


rollseyes

 

[mplane72]

Honestly, I don't give 2 chits about what the NFL players do during the anthem. I don't particularly like it but it won't stop me from watching a game if I want to. While I know many players do things and have foundations that do try and give back to their communities I look at kneeling as nothing more then a publicity stunt as was the President's speech and the VP's little theater show. It's all BS now.

I have no doubt racial profiling exists and there are serious issues between blacks and the PD in many communities. Nfl players could do something more effective as could the President. Now it's just another issue to identify what tribe you're in.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Honestly, I don't give 2 chits about what the NFL players do during the anthem. I don't particularly like it but it won't stop me from watching a game if I want to. While I know many players do things and have foundations that do try and give back to their communities I look at kneeling as nothing more then a publicity stunt as was the President's speech and the VP's little theater show. It's all BS now.

I have no doubt racial profiling exists and there are serious issues between blacks and the PD in many communities. Nfl players could do something more effective as could the President. Now it's just another issue to identify what tribe you're in.

+1.

 

[Colorado kid]

Ya well I grew up in a largely black and Hispanic community, got shot at by a car full of blacks, had a bullet go thru the headrest in front of me.. Got robbed at gunpoint by a young black male, got jumped by 4-5 Hispanics. In my neighborhoodhood if you are any color and you got some brothers or homies walking behind you at 11 at night that you don’t know, your a fool if you don’t watch your six. That’s reality my friend, I don’t imagine the cops in that community look at it any different. All the pc in the world isn’t going to change life experience. Also I don’t expect anybody who grew up in in Wyoming or North Dakota to understand it. I can’t tell you what goes thru a young black mans head when he gets pulled over any more than I can tell you what’s going thru the cops head that is pulling him over. But this I know, as long as there is a segment of the community that behaves like animals, there will be a segment of the people who police them that behave like animals. The police in any community are just a representation of the people from that community.

I am going to go out on a limb here , but my guess is that if kappernick and the likes can come up with a way to get young black males to stop shooting each other, they might stop getting shot by the police as well. If he’s got a way to bring jobs to black communities, get black fathers to raise their children, than I am all ears. Until then he is just a disrespectful punk to the country and flag I hold dear. The whole thing is misguided. He might have the right, and I respect that, but I have the right not to watch. And my guess is there are quite a few Americans just like me.

I don’t take any responsibility for the stigma, I am not a democrat, a member of the media, or a Hollywood producer.

Someone who is treated like an animal will act accordingly.

 

[Schaaf]

Jerry Jones-the voice of reason. Who would have thunk.


rollseyes

Let the record show this is the first time Jerruh has objected to kneeling.