Non-resident tag pricing

[Tom]

mtmiller, my argument is that the non-resident who shoots the deer on federal land should pay something more similar to what you pay on federal land in your home state, its just an idea. The idea is that if the deer lives off the land, that landowner should be encouraged to manage the land better. Attaching the wildlife to the land that it is on, an idea like that. Some states support that idea more and some support it less, I wish every state would support it more. It seems basic to me, like a first principle, pay for what you eat and pay fairly. Don't charge rich white guys twice or even a thousand times as much, then give yourself a free plate, that's prejudiced behavior. If you're poor, maybe its ok, but do it for every poor guy fairly.

 

[The Hedgehog]

We Todd did.

 

[Dinkshooter]

What about sofa king?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Tom could you give me an example where you, as a NR, pay more than I do for "federal access"?

Demonstration Fees?


Actually they are independent of the residence of the victim, but we are now paying Demonstration Fees for access to federal lands.

 

[Nemont]

mtmiller, my argument is that the non-resident who shoots the deer on federal land should pay something more similar to what you pay on federal land in your home state, its just an idea. The idea is that if the deer lives off the land, that landowner should be encouraged to manage the land better. Attaching the wildlife to the land that it is on, an idea like that. Some states support that idea more and some support it less, I wish every state would support it more. It seems basic to me, like a first principle, pay for what you eat and pay fairly. Don't charge rich white guys twice or even a thousand times as much, then give yourself a free plate, that's prejudiced behavior. If you're poor, maybe its ok, but do it for every poor guy fairly.

Why would management of wildlife depend upon whether a person was poor or rich? How many poor people are hunting out of state?

Can you name which states support such an idea and which support it less? I don't know of any state that has taken a position? Minnesota maybe when they sued North Dakota but they got their ass handed to them in that case.

There is nothing basic about attaching a wild animal to any land. It is not in the law, Constitution nor tradition of hunting in North America.

So you are really into class warfare?

Nemont

P.S. Which hand is filling up? The one you are wishing into or shitting into?

 

[TLC]

Tom, I'd like to hear what states are doing this also as I have never heard of any of them doing this. and as a landowner, why would I want to "manage" the land better? lets see, I can spend money and improve my land for wildlife, or sell it for ten grand an acre and retire. now, this is not me personnally as I put food plots and such on my farm, but up here where I live, thats the sentiments landowners have. and wondering why this is such a tough thing for you to deal with? not sure if charging more for non residents is right or not. but bottom line is, they do. so deal with it. if you want to hunt elk in montana, pay for the priveledge. if you don't want to pay, don't go. wonder what you think about the amount they charge to go to canada and hunt? then again, maybe I don't want to know. had the hunt of my life last year in idaho, paid decent money for it, but that was my choice. and now I will go back probably more than once because it is worth it to me to hunt there.

 

[Tom]

Texas has a wildlife exemption tax credit for people who manage their land for wildlife. New Mexico lets landowners sell tags they get. Landowners in Kansas and Nebraska can get tags based on their land. Those are some examples. What makes you think I have trouble dealing with it?

The forum doesn't exist if we don't post our thoughts and discuss them with each other.

Does Illinois offer you any insentive for your food plots? Yes, you have control over who hunts your land, right? What if you didn't have that control? I think you'd buy land and put food plots somewhere else where you got treated more fairly.

I don't like the idea of paying Canada $50 tax to take my gun there. I got screwed on a BC blackbear hunt a few years back. I had it set up, then they delayed the grizzly season. Then the outfitter had to refund the big bucks to other hunters of grizzly, then the outfitter couldn't afford the lease to the government. Then my guide wasn't a guide. Then, I was left with no hunt, except last minute higher cost ones at less desireable times. I went sight seeing instead of hunting on my business trip there. I didn't even feel like fishing.

If you think Idaho was your hunt of a lifeltime, you should go to Alaska. I vote for Alaska on that for me, so far. The trouble with that though, was I traveled and sat for several days before I could even hunt and it was hard to preserve the meat.

 

[AZ402]

Big Fin, I read that Baldwin stuff a long time ago. What I need is your reference that you don't want to give a google lesson on. Has anybody found that thing he is talking about?

I'm thinking just to go on vacation and hike around, like you guys hunt, and take pictures for free, then spend my hard earned money on a hunt, rather than a lottery hunt draw where I"m guaranteed on average to loose. I don't like the expensive lotteries with little return, which is what they are getting to be like more and more. You can read and read and cross check and cross check and find something good, or you can just hunt every weekend down here when you're off.

I might even skip the vacation hiking with pictures, instead of spending that money seeing your hills and trees, I could get a nice trophy down here.

Noharleyyet, have you seen our state record archery buck from a $50 public hunt? I've gotten record book animals on public hunts here, several of them. If you're into that, you can enter them in the books.

Calif.Hunter, I forgot if I asked you about this or not.

http://www.outdoorjournal.com/wuhome/wubiggame.html

I did a trade with a lady in that years ago and I caught two brown trout I got mounted where she took me fishing. She got a hog and sika deer here.

She got bear and deer and hogs in that club and went on an elk hunt in Oregon and got one for a good price in that club.

I was in a hunting club here in Texas that had a bunch of ranches we could hunt and several with lakes and rivers to fish too. It was not bad for me but it went bankrupt the year after I got out. The guy who ran it got sick and couldn't replace ranches as they were being lost and he was too bossy to let anyone else do it. After loosing my favorite turkey ranch and my favorite hog ranch, I got out. He was so sick, he died about a year after it went bankrupt. It was great for me for like 8-9 years though.

coopaloop, don't be surprised if you pay more and more federal access fees. In fact, maybe you should pay 20-30 times more than a non-resident or at least, each time you use it.

Where does it say the state owns them? I think its for all practical purposes like that, but I think of it as the state manages the animals for all the people. No one owns them until they legally tag them.

mtmiller, my argument is that the non-resident who shoots the deer on federal land should pay something more similar to what you pay on federal land in your home state, its just an idea. The idea is that if the deer lives off the land, that landowner should be encouraged to manage the land better. Attaching the wildlife to the land that it is on, an idea like that. Some states support that idea more and some support it less, I wish every state would support it more. It seems basic to me, like a first principle, pay for what you eat and pay fairly. Don't charge rich white guys twice or even a thousand times as much, then give yourself a free plate, that's prejudiced behavior. If you're poor, maybe its ok, but do it for every poor guy fairly.

Texas has a wildlife exemption tax credit for people who manage their land for wildlife. New Mexico lets landowners sell tags they get. Landowners in Kansas and Nebraska can get tags based on their land. Those are some examples. What makes you think I have trouble dealing with it?

The forum doesn't exist if we don't post our thoughts and discuss them with each other.

Does Illinois offer you any insentive for your food plots? Yes, you have control over who hunts your land, right? What if you didn't have that control? I think you'd buy land and put food plots somewhere else where you got treated more fairly.

I don't like the idea of paying Canada $50 tax to take my gun there. I got screwed on a BC blackbear hunt a few years back. I had it set up, then they delayed the grizzly season. Then the outfitter had to refund the big bucks to other hunters of grizzly, then the outfitter couldn't afford the lease to the government. Then my guide wasn't a guide. Then, I was left with no hunt, except last minute higher cost ones at less desireable times. I went sight seeing instead of hunting on my business trip there. I didn't even feel like fishing.

If you think Idaho was your hunt of a lifeltime, you should go to Alaska. I vote for Alaska on that for me, so far. The trouble with that though, was I traveled and sat for several days before I could even hunt and it was hard to preserve the meat.

I'm going to go outside and kick the shit out of my dog....

 

[Tom]

Isn't animal abuse like that against the law in AZ?
What would the federal court say about that?

 

[smalls]

Isn't animal abuse like that against the law in AZ?
What would the federal court say about that?

Unless he mailed that pooch across state lines (with a kilo of blow) to kick the shit out of it, federal court can't do anything...

 

[Tom]

Here's the first questions' answer, AZ does not like it.

http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusazst13_2910.htm

I guess smalls is right on the second part, unless it gets kicked accross state lines or something like that, its not a federal issue.

 

[The Hedgehog]

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

 

[Tom]

What would Teddy do? Teddy Roosevelt, that Teddy. Google Duncan Hunter, he's got an idea.

You think Teddy wanted this for federal lands? Bunk, that's a pile right there.

 

[Nemont]

Tom,

yeah googling Duncan Hunter brings up alot.


http://www.beyonddelay.org/node/313


Duncan Hunters bill never even got to the second reading in Committee. His "idea" ended right after he realized that nobody wanted him to be President.

How can you presume to speak for Teddy Roosevelt? His legacy is conservation not access to hunting in other states.

Nemont

 

[AZ402]

Teddy Roosevelt would take a Tijuana Bullwhip to Tom if they ever crossed paths..........

 

[Tom]

He wanted the average American to hunt federal lands, right? I'm not speaking for him, I'm asking.

Google that,

"The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) in the year 2006 was $26,036."

So what does your state charge the average American from the other 49 states?

 

[TLC]

Tom, the state (illinois) does not do anything to help a landowner with land development. food plots. if you own over 40 acres, the DNR gives you 2 free firearm and 2 free archery permits to hunt your own land, but not sure that means they are giving you(me) anything. if the landowner wants to put in food plots, thats their individual choice. the state used to give fish to property owners who had ponds they wanted to stock. but if the landowner did that program, you had to make it open to the public. they did away with that program because people (landowners) didn't want people being able to come on their land that they paid for.

the feds have the CRP program, but just because you meet the requirements, and you put some of your property in the program, does not mean you have to let the general public access to your property. so failing to see what it is that states do for property owners to make it worthwhile.

as far as having control over who hunts my land, of course I do. its private property. just like I have control over who drives my car. or who comes in my house. its called private over public.

 

[Tom]

Can you transfer the free tags to someone else, for money or for free, or do you have to use them?

 

[Nemont]

He wanted the average American to hunt federal lands, right? I'm not speaking for him, I'm asking.

Google that,

"The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) in the year 2006 was $26,036."

So what does your state charge the average American from the other 49 states?

I don't care what the median income is. That is not anywhere in the Constitution, law, court cases or tradition. Median income, Average income, Per Capita income, Whatever does not figure into anything period.

What my state charges is what people are willing to pay in order to come to my state and hunt. Those people have decided that they want to spend their resources on hunting in Montana. I have met average people who just enjoy life and hunting in Montana. Most of the enjoyable people are not Texans who whine about what it costs.

So show me where TR wanted the Average American to be able to afford Hunting on Federal lands. I can't find anything even remotely stating such at thing that is a verifiable quote from TR himself.

So put up or shut up.

Nemont

 

[The Hedgehog]

Can you transfer the free tags to someone else, for money or for free, or do you have to use them?

sofa king we Todd did